Soldato
OK; fair play to Octopus to simply stand by the quote and subtract the new full amount.
Heat Pumps: anyone have one/thought about it?
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Soldato
I know people can be cynical and some trades would take advantage of gov injected capital, but I couldn't see Octopus trying to charge extra here, they get paid just the same after all.
Whether they try and squeeze in more profit on new quotes remains to be seen.
Not a good look if they don't pass on the savings 1:1 but we can't be sure if they were getting back end tax incentives that have been impacted.
I initially really wanted a heat pump on my next move but until gas cost changes Ive mentally de-prioritised it. If I get a pad with an old or knackered boiler then probably will bump it up the list but as of now mind is saying
insulation improvements> battery system > solar > heat pump
I initially really wanted a heat pump on my next move but until gas cost changes Ive mentally de-prioritised it. If I get a pad with an old or knackered boiler then probably will bump it up the list but as of now mind is saying
insulation improvements> battery system > solar > heat pump
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Associate
I think i would slightly swap them round to:
Or maybe:
Depending on your lifestyle, I think the ROI is higher with solar than with battery.
Soldato
It makes no sense for anyone with a functioning boiler of gas or oil to move to a heat pump
I dont think that equation is going to change for a fair few years
I dont think that equation is going to change for a fair few years
Associate
Add the word “efficient” or “modern” before functioning and I’d agree with you.
Soldato
I was slayed for saying that earlier in this thread.
Glad more people are realising the fact that you can't just buy a heat pump and all will be fine and that we should all force the whole country to move to it.
The grant does little to help many improve there insulation and get solar panel sorted
Soldato
Solar is not going to make virtually any difference to heat pump running costs we already had this conversation
I’m not sure I fully subscribe to the above.
All solar and batteries do is lower your electricity cost. They don’t change how much energy a heat pump actually consumed.
If you have solar and battery storage, the chances are you are not exporting much in the winter but you can obviously use your battery storage to lower the average cost of the electricity you use. It’s not impossible to power your heat pump entirely off battery which you charge up at 7.5p/kWh. You don’t actually need that much to cover the bulk of your heating demand for all but the coldest days. Any spare capacity in an existing solar/battery system will contribute to lowering the average cost of the energy you consume.
All solar and batteries do is lower your electricity cost. They don’t change how much energy a heat pump actually consumed.
If you have solar and battery storage, the chances are you are not exporting much in the winter but you can obviously use your battery storage to lower the average cost of the electricity you use. It’s not impossible to power your heat pump entirely off battery which you charge up at 7.5p/kWh. You don’t actually need that much to cover the bulk of your heating demand for all but the coldest days. Any spare capacity in an existing solar/battery system will contribute to lowering the average cost of the energy you consume.
Soldato
They decrease your energy bill and a heat pump uses electricity
Soldato
There will be days granted when they help.
But unless someone has specified a serious battery then its going to make naff all difference in the key months.
I think its highly unlikely that people who already have batteries will be having a spare 10+ kWh of storage
My average gas usage Dec-Feb was 40kWh a day, thats heating and water plus a small amount of gas hob
My average PV generation was 4.88kWh, thats a 5.6kw array west facing, which is about 4kw effective to south facing.
You need to really consider the marginal units added above your daily usage as opposed to the average cost if your being honest.
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Soldato
Ahh how come?
Doesn't heat pumps run on electric and don't you generate electricity using solar panels?
What am I missing?
It’s the seasonality. During winter, I produce one third of the solar energy I do during summer. The solar production during winter only covers my base electricity load approx. one day a week. On the other hand, during summer, there’s plenty of surplus to export. My heat pump usage pattern will be the complete opposite- high in winter, when I’m producing little and low in summer.
Check the graphs here - https://blog.spiritenergy.co.uk/contractor/heat-pumps-solar-panels
The first shows normal energy usage whilst the second adds a (relatively low power) heat pump on top.
Soldato
OK cool thanks. Was it cheaper to run your heat pump vs a gas boiler for your usage during winter?
I’m going to have to defer that for a year! Got it installed in May so not really given it a fair test. I also installed underfloor heating and underfloor insulation at the same time so not an entirely fair comparison anyway.
Octopus have come back with £900 for everything including a hot water tank.
So with previous calculations that would take 7 years to pay off, then £122 a year better of Vs gas. What are the chances it will still be £900 when my boiler needs replacing.
So with previous calculations that would take 7 years to pay off, then £122 a year better of Vs gas. What are the chances it will still be £900 when my boiler needs replacing.
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I can’t imagine they’ll be offering a £7.5k grant forever. That’s a pretty impressive offer compared to the cost of a new boiler. Do you expect to need to do much fixing up after? Are they just switching things where they are rather than replacing pipes all over the place (which will require repainting etc)?
Hence the grant of £7500 to help to switch people over, forget about the ROI and all that for a second and just look at it as £7500 free money. Not all houses need massive amount of work to keep the COP above 4 (wet finger in the air number for ASHP to be as cheap as gas with current prices per unit). That is what grant is, free money. Same goes to employer contribution pension matching your contribution, you don't use it you gets nothing.
I have solar and battery and running of Octopus Go traiff, although solar don't provide nearly enough to run just the house let alone the ASHP in winter it does not mean it would not help with cost in terms of money. My night 4 hours rate is 7.5p and having the battery means that anything I use during the day will cost 7p *correction 9p now* instead of 32p which is a massive difference.
For ASHP to work or worth changing in my house it needs to be COP 4, this is to do with gas prices and electricity prices. ASHP will use more electricity but my gas bill will reduce (I will cook as we need the Wok Hei), to compensate the increased electricity use I have ripple wind farm and also the solar farm which hopefully give me money back just as I would use electricity at cheaper rate.
If COP drops to 3 and below that would really mess up my calculations and of course if gas prices drop to 35% of current price then it would be a disaster too. I won't cry if my system shows a COP 2.5 but it just meant I wasted the governments £7500 etc.
If I recall correctly there was grant many years back when you insulate your house you get money from governments which also had a lot of criticism, a lot of people are saying insulation your house will yield more benefit than changing gas to ASHP which I agree but it has already been done to death.
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My installers advised I should get a SCOP of around 3.6. Breaking it down:
* During summer, heating hot water only, it’ll have a low COP of around 2.6.
* In the shoulder months, expect a high COP around 4.
* In the coldest months, expect a COP below 3.
Overall, balancing out at around 3.6.