Heat Pumps: anyone have one/thought about it?

[China Man]

Bet it will take u 10 years to break even though.. Maybe longer.

Solar panels last I checked ain't cheap to install and is quite expensive.

Materials for it is expensive and the labour plus scaffolding is also not cheap.

Did you already have insulated walls? Roof and ground floor insulation?

Did you also already have suitable radiator sizes and also a place to store the hot water cylinder tank?

Cost will always be an issue with any new tech, not just the affordability but also human spending habit.

No one ever talk about ROI of buying a Car, Jacket, Watch, food. but when it comes to Solar and renewable then how many years before it will break even.... If you have an existing working system then don't do anything and you will have 100% ROI in zero year

I did my solar and battery install myself and got an electrician to wire the final part, apply for DNO myself and that save a lot of money. My calculation was ROI of 8-12 years but with the unexpected price hike it is now a lot less and that alone was not the decision for me going down that route.

With the Governments grant of 5k towards ASHP it is like free money (not free as it is paid by taxes collected) but like company contribution to pension if you put in £10 and they match £10 then it is £1o of free money which other wise "lost"

What we really needs is a ASHP which works at higher temperature like the gas boiler, doesn't need high flow rate and can be use replace gas boiler without any mods and still have the 400% efficiency.......not too much to ask for in 2023. Just get the AI to do some work for a few minutes.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Worcester Bosch green star 18i

I had a kingfisher. Older than most of our parents lol

 

[jonneymendoza]

Cost will always be an issue with any new tech, not just the affordability but also human spending habit.

No one ever talk about ROI of buying a Car, Jacket, Watch, food. but when it comes to Solar and renewable then how many years before it will break even.... If you have an existing working system then don't do anything and you will have 100% ROI in zero year

I did my solar and battery install myself and got an electrician to wire the final part, apply for DNO myself and that save a lot of money. My calculation was ROI of 8-12 years but with the unexpected price hike it is now a lot less and that alone was not the decision for me going down that route.

With the Governments grant of 5k towards ASHP it is like free money (not free as it is paid by taxes collected) but like company contribution to pension if you put in £10 and they match £10 then it is £1o of free money which other wise "lost"

What we really needs is a ASHP which works at higher temperature like the gas boiler, doesn't need high flow rate and can be use replace gas boiler without any mods and still have the 400% efficiency.......not too much to ask for in 2023. Just get the AI to do some work for a few minutes.

Not many are capable of doing that themselves. It's not really a DIY type of job installing solar panels

 

[henry hoov3r]

Worcester Bosch green star 18i

Worcester do a one off repair which is about 350/400 quid including all parts and that covers a main heat exchanger as well. Wouldn’t it be worth going down that route.

 

[henry hoov3r]

I had a kingfisher. Older than most of our parents lol

Them things are tanks.

 

[fish]

Worcester do a one off repair which is about 350/400 quid including all parts and that covers a main heat exchanger as well. Wouldn’t it be worth going down that route.

Got a link to that? As it’s the main heat exchanger that’s had it

 

[henry hoov3r]

Got a link to that? As it’s the main heat exchanger that’s had it

Just call Worcester all the main manufacturers offer a similar service. Usually works out cheaper to get a one off repair than it is to buy the actual part.

Is it the cylinder style heat exchanger?

 

[fish]

Yes it is, it been cleaner out internally but still very inefficient could be sludge build up inside

 

[henry hoov3r]

Yes it is, it been cleaner out internally but still very inefficient could be sludge build up inside

Yeah that usually causes it I changed my neighbours he had an 18Ri that wasn’t long out of the warranty period and Worcester sent him a new heat exchanger FOC. You can tell fairly early on when they are about to go as they start to ripple.

 

[fish]

ripple?

mine just has a sustained 6kw output down from 17 last year

 

[jonneymendoza]

Them things are tanks.

Tell me about it

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Yes but you can't just dump gas so easily without basically gutting out a property. Removing the gas pipes, insulating the property getting solar panels fitted, new pipe work, new storage on where your heat pump and storage hot water cylinder goes etc etc. And guess how much that will cost a family to do?

Forcing everyone to change heating system won't work and is not practical in the majority of houses in the UK

Jesus nice try but a lot of fail.
1) You don't have to remove gas pipes. They just seal them off. I have had this done before. The main street one they will likely remove however but thats external to house.
2) new pipework applies for some people. If you have pretty much anything except the copper microbore chances are your ok.
3) new storage for heat pump certainly, hot water cylinder, well again that depends, I already have a cylinder so for me its a swap. If you were dumb enough to remove a cylinder and take the space back then thats your own fault. I accept some newer houses may not have a space for a cylinder. They can be loft installed though..
4) you dont need solar, they are to some extent complimentary techs
5) guess? I just got my quote from Octopus for £3800. Above is based on 120sqm house.

• A market-leading Daikin air source heat pump
• A compatible hot water cylinder
• Any necessary radiator changes
• Plumbing & electrical bits needed to fit your new heating system
• £5,000 Boiler Upgrade Scheme grant (we apply for this grant on your behalf)
• All delivery and labour costs

 

[jonneymendoza]

Jesus nice try but a lot of fail.
1) You don't have to remove gas pipes. They just seal them off. I have had this done before. The main street one they will likely remove however but thats external to house.
2) new pipework applies for some people. If you have pretty much anything except the copper microbore chances are your ok.
3) new storage for heat pump certainly, hot water cylinder, well again that depends, I already have a cylinder so for me its a swap. If you were dumb enough to remove a cylinder and take the space back then thats your own fault. I accept some newer houses may not have a space for a cylinder. They can be loft installed though..
4) you dont need solar, they are to some extent complimentary techs
5) guess? I just got my quote from Octopus for £3800. Above is based on 120sqm house.

• A market-leading Daikin air source heat pump
• A compatible hot water cylinder
• Any necessary radiator changes
• Plumbing & electrical bits needed to fit your new heating system
• £5,000 Boiler Upgrade Scheme grant (we apply for this grant on your behalf)
• All delivery and labour costs

No mention of insulting the properly to begin with unless it's a newly ish build with the current building regs for insulated external walls, roof and ground floor...

Its literally not just the air source heat pump you need to buy for the majority of property in the UK....

You do need solar to actually reap the benefits of air source as its powered by electricity which is more important expensive than gas per kwh.

I look at the overall picture. Not just the air source heat pump...

Nice try from you though

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

No mention of insulting the properly to begin with unless it's a newly ish build with the current building regs for insulated external walls, roof and ground floor...

Its literally not just the air source heat pump you need to buy for the majority of property in the UK....

You do need solar to actually reap the benefits of air source as its powered by electricity which is more important expensive than gas per kwh.

I look at the overall picture. Not just the air source heat pump...

Nice try from you though

Many house are well insulated. Many have been retrofitted.

You dont need solar at all. You can for example go onto cosy tariff from Octopus that means the unit cost of running is similar to gas. It has 2x 3 hour cheap periods for heating and heating water.

I dont think anyone is saying that every house in teh UK is ready. But a certain chunk will be ready/fine.
There is massive amounts of nonsense quoted on these, just like EVs, just like solar etc its almost as if there is a whole sector thats desperate to slow down the transition...

I get the impression you don't have a lot of clue in regard solar by your earlier comments on 10 year ROI.

Not a nice try from you unfortunately.

 

[henry hoov3r]

Jesus nice try but a lot of fail.
1) You don't have to remove gas pipes. They just seal them off. I have had this done before. The main street one they will likely remove however but thats external to house.
2) new pipework applies for some people. If you have pretty much anything except the copper microbore chances are your ok.
3) new storage for heat pump certainly, hot water cylinder, well again that depends, I already have a cylinder so for me its a swap. If you were dumb enough to remove a cylinder and take the space back then thats your own fault. I accept some newer houses may not have a space for a cylinder. They can be loft installed though..
4) you dont need solar, they are to some extent complimentary techs
5) guess? I just got my quote from Octopus for £3800. Above is based on 120sqm house.

• A market-leading Daikin air source heat pump
• A compatible hot water cylinder
• Any necessary radiator changes
• Plumbing & electrical bits needed to fit your new heating system
• £5,000 Boiler Upgrade Scheme grant (we apply for this grant on your behalf)
• All delivery and labour costs

Have you ever tried fitting a 250l cylinder through a loft hatch?

 

[henry hoov3r]

Tell me about it

Hernia has entered the chat.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Have you ever tried fitting a 250l cylinder through a loft hatch?

Many house are well insulated. Many have been retrofitted.

You dont need solar at all. You can for example go onto cosy tariff from Octopus that means the unit cost of running is similar to gas. It has 2x 3 hour cheap periods for heating and heating water.

I dont think anyone is saying that every house in teh UK is ready. But a certain chunk will be ready/fine.
There is massive amounts of nonsense quoted on these, just like EVs, just like solar etc its almost as if there is a whole sector thats desperate to slow down the transition...

I get the impression you don't have a lot of clue in regard solar by your earlier comments on 10 year ROI.

Not a nice try from you unfortunately.

Says who? Many houses are not well insulated.

Plenty still need to be and that it costs a ton of money.

You are assuming that most houses are well insulated but they are not.

You never once said that in order to get air source heat pump you need to check first if your property is insulated to standard.

No one here is stopping progress for greener energy.

You honestly think people wouldn't love to be living off the grid so to speak? Don't be silly. Everyone would love to generate there own energy to heat up there homes, clean there bodies and cook food all from using the sun's energy but if you read properly, my issue is costs and how many people think that you just slap on a air source and your good to go without looking at insulation and solar panels

 

[HungryHippos]

Have you ever tried fitting a 250l cylinder through a loft hatch?

Octopus said they'd definitely not do more than 200L, and would be subject to survey of the roof etc when they come along to check things.

250L => 200L is not a big drop, but it's smaller and presumably getting these things into a loft hatch isn't impossible, but will find out.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Have you ever tried fitting a 250l cylinder through a loft hatch?

I haven't but then lots seem to be installing them so somehow they manage.
Its another, house dependant I guess, many old houses had tiny loft hatches.

Having a quick look at my loft hatch and my cylinder (210l) I would be 90% on its likelyhood to go. It would be very close.

 

[HungryHippos]

You do need solar to actually reap the benefits of air source as its powered by electricity which is more important expensive than gas per kwh.

Heat pumps can in theory run 3-400% efficient vs gas which is at best 100% but is probably 85% - 90%.

Therefore as long as electric unit price used for the heat pump isn't more than about 300% of a gas kWh price, then it should be much of a muchness.

The insulation thing would also apply for gas CH unless you're hoping that the higher rated power will overcome poor insulation. In a poorly insulated house I could see that being an issue, but I could also see the current central heating performing poorly as well.