Heathrow total shutdown

[Werewolf]

I'm genuinely surprised that a single substation going down shut down Heathrow. I would have thought they would have redundant national grid supply

As one of the other memebers who works with multiple incoming supplies said (and i'm paraphasing), you can't just swap over to the other supply until you have an idea why the first one died.

Basically if it's a fault on your side and you switch over you potentially take out the backup as well.

There is also the minor issue of working with switching at that sort of level, it tends to be something that you don't do lightly, or necessarily easily because just moving the switches over is a fairly serious risk to life at times.
IIRC the substation that died was the sort of size that often powers an entire mid sized town to give an idea of the power involved, not the sort of substation you see at the end of a lot of residential streets.

 

[rypt]

As one of the other memebers who works with multiple incoming supplies said (and i'm paraphasing), you can't just swap over to the other supply until you have an idea why the first one died.

Basically if it's a fault on your side and you switch over you potentially take out the backup as well.

There is also the minor issue of working with switching at that sort of level, it tends to be something that you don't do lightly, or necessarily easily because just moving the switches over is a fairly serious risk to life at times.
IIRC the substation that died was the sort of size that often powers an entire mid sized town to give an idea of the power involved, not the sort of substation you see at the end of a lot of residential streets.

I appreciate it's not a simple thing, but data centres and banks are designed with redundant supplies in mind, and with onsite generator that can power for a day or two.

I'm amazed that one of the world's largest airports wasn't operating under the same model.

 

[Jokester]

I appreciate it's not a simple thing, but data centres and banks are designed with redundant supplies in mind, and with onsite generator that can power for a day or two.

I'm amazed that one of the world's largest airports wasn't operating under the same model.

It's quite normal for large industrial sites to manage multiple incoming power supplies without falling over when one fails.

 

[rypt]

It's quite normal for large industrial sites to manage multiple incoming power supplies without falling over when one fails.

So what went wrong at Heathrow that "failed" when one failed?

 

[Diddums x]

It wasn't part of Heathrow's infrastructure. Seems to be a lot of confusion around this. It was the National Grid. Heathrow has no power(lol) over it.

 

[inogen]

So when are we getting the results of the investigation into why it happened?

Should and is/will the reason why available via FOI act?

 

[jpaul]

Heathrow pays for the kind of supply it wants ? - redundancy/fall-over-facility etc.
yesterday interview with data centre back-up supply company suggested they often use mobile emergency supplies - said 15 lorries with these would have done heathrow.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I appreciate it's not a simple thing, but data centres and banks are designed with redundant supplies in mind, and with onsite generator that can power for a day or two.

I'm amazed that one of the world's largest airports wasn't operating under the same model.

The amount of power that data centres use wouldn’t touch the sides of something like Heathrow. Typical data centre is pulling 1-10MW, Heathrow is pulling >30MW on average, its peak power draw is probably 50% higher given it doesn’t even operate 24/7.

Heathrow would basically need its own power station on standby. I guess you could say it’s got a big supply of kerosene on site to fuel said generators.

So when are we getting the results of the investigation into why it happened?

Should and is/will the reason why available via FOI act?

Not next week…

 

[Jokester]

Heathrow pays for the kind of supply it wants ? - redundancy/fall-over-facility etc.

It looks they didn't pay for redundant incoming supplies and while they had their own backup generator (which seemingly went up on fire at the same time) I don't believe it would have been sized for the keeping the site operational.

 

[jpaul]

looks like heathrow isn't alone and not as spectacular - things are better and bigger in the usa.

Electrical fault caused 'plasma arc' that turned New York skyline blue

New York City's electric utility Con Edison this morning explained that an electrical fault on 138,000-volt equipment at a Queens power plant caused 'a sustained electrical arc flash.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Dazzling moment an electrical fault caused a huge 'plasma arc' that turned the New York skyline an intense blue - grounding planes, shutting out power and causing city-wide confusion
New York skyline turned a bizarre blue on Thursday night after an electrical fault at a Con Edison plant
Utility said Friday the fault produced what is known as electrical arc flash
Electrical arc is a visible plasma discharge between two electrodes caused by electrical current ionizing gasses in the air
Bewildered residents took to the streets and shared images on social media after the haze filled the sky
Power was cut at many addresses across the area including the nearby La Guardia airport
Flights were cancelled for more than an hour after the power cut, causing chaos during a busy travel week
Officials at the Rikers Island jail were also forced to use backup generators when their electricity shut off
There were no injuries in the blast, the fire was quickly contained, and many saw the lighter side of the fire
The NYPD jokingly confirmed that aliens had not invaded, while others shared memes from sci-fi movies
By SNEJANA FARBEROV and MATTHEW WRIGHT FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

PUBLISHED: 14:08, 28 December 2018 | UPDATED: 13:32, 29 December 2018

e:

Dr Malte Jansen, an energy lecturer and researcher, University of Sussex, said:



How/why would one substation have such a big impact on an airport? Is that normal / what we would expect from our energy infrastructure?

“The connection point in question is in a 300-330 kV line which is part of NationalGrid’s transmission network (see the network map (https://www.entsoe.eu/data/map/). Electrical infrastructure is usually redundant (called n-1), which allows for the failure of one critical component. In the substation, there would have been two separate switch gears to allow for n-1, with the lower voltage being n-1 as well. As both switching points are within the same site, going into Heathrow, they may have both been damaged at the same time, resulting in the loss of two critical pieces of equipment.

“The map shows that the substation in North Hyde is the only one near Heathrow, and likely the only substation supplying the airport with power. Heathrow is most likely connected to the High Voltage NationalGrid, considering its power draw.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

It looks they didn't pay for redundant incoming supplies and while they had their own backup generator (which seemingly went up on fire at the same time) I don't believe it would have been sized for the keeping the site operational.

There was no back up generator at the substation for the transformer, that’s misinformation. There may be a back up generator on the site but it’s only to run the control equipment in the site should the sites small transformer which is used to power the equipment on the site fails.

Likewise even if there was, it isn’t Heathrow’s equipment. Nothing that belonged to Heathrow caught fire.

A single transformer caught fire and the transformer next to it may have been damaged, certainly its ancillaries would have been. There were 3 large transformers on site which supply the local grid. The first took the power from the main grid which stepped it down fed the other two.

Heathrow does have multiple power supplies (three IIRC), that doesn’t mean they can draw their full power immediately from the other two if one drops out.

Clearly they can power the site from two of their power supplies because they are up and running and they thing that caught fire hasn’t been repaired yet.

 

[Participant]

Heathrow does have multiple power supplies (three IIRC), that doesn’t mean they can draw their full power immediately from the other two if one drops out.

It should mean that, if they have configured their systems correctly.

 

[Jokester]

There was no back up generator at the substation for the transformer, that’s misinformation. There may be a back up generator on the site but it’s only to run the control equipment in the site should the sites small transformer which is used to power the equipment on the site fails.

Likewise even if there was, it isn’t Heathrow’s equipment. Nothing that belonged to Heathrow caught fire.

A single transformer caught fire and the transformer next to it may have been damaged, certainly its ancillaries would have been. There were 3 large transformers on site which supply the local grid. The first took the power from the main grid which stepped it down fed the other two.

Heathrow does have multiple power supplies (three IIRC), that doesn’t mean they can draw their full power immediately from the other two if one drops out.

Clearly they can power the site from two of their power supplies because they are up and running and they thing that caught fire hasn’t been repaired yet.

If they do have redundant supplies then they must have ****ed up with them for the site to completely lose power. Offshore we'll usually have multiple generators running, such that if any one falls over the rest can pick up the load if required (and start load shedding lower priority loads if needed). Onshore sites I've worked on have had redundant supplies coming in (sometimes even with the grids own switchboards before it's handed over to our incomers).

Maybe they were just unlucky that there were doing maintenance on the other site feeds at the time of the fire, but we'll see.

 

[Dis86]

It should mean that, if they have configured their systems correctly.

No, it shouldn't. You can only get what the grid provides. The voltage at those points may also not be suitable for the downstream equipment.

 

[Participant]

No, it shouldn't. You can only get what the grid provides. The voltage at those points may also not be suitable for the downstream equipment.

The grid provided redundancy that wasn't taken advantage of. The voltage comment shows that you have no idea how transmission and distribution networks operate.

 

[Dis86]

The grid provided redundancy that wasn't taken advantage of. The voltage comment shows that you have no idea how transmission and distribution networks operate.

Oh do educate me as to how voltage may magically change itself if the appropriately sized transformers aren't there to do it.

 

[Diddums x]

I'll tell you right now what it was. It was incompetence and insufficient funds to maintain their kit to the levels that their maintenance crews will have dictated. It was someone's Christmas bonus having an extra £20k on top because he saved £50k on UPS and switchgear maintenance throughout 2024-2025. And it'll get swept under the rugs, too many reputations at stake for them to own up and admit it. Nevertheless, lessons will be learned and all that nonsense.


Keep in mind that it's also March, very close to the end of the financial year, so they may have been sitting on quotes to carry out essential works until the FY rolls over and more funds become available.

 

[Participant]

Oh do educate me as to how voltage may magically change itself if the appropriately sized transformers aren't there to do it.

Haha, you haven't got a clue, sorry. I used to work for National Grid and we had a lot of dealings with Heathrow. Trust me, when the finger pointing stops, the blame will lie with Heathrow.

 

[Dis86]

Haha, you haven't got a clue, sorry. I used to work for National Grid and we had a lot of dealings with Heathrow. Trust me, when the finger pointing stops, the blame will lie with Heathrow.

Cmon, tell me. How do I get my 33kv incomers down to match my 11kv incomers?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

If they do have redundant supplies then they must have ****ed up with them for the site to completely lose power. Offshore we'll usually have multiple generators running, such that if any one falls over the rest can pick up the load if required (and start load shedding lower priority loads if needed). Onshore sites I've worked on have had redundant supplies coming in (sometimes even with the grids own switchboards before it's handed over to our incomers).

Maybe they were just unlucky that there were doing maintenance on the other site feeds at the time of the fire, but we'll see.

Heathrow is drawing 270,000MWh per year.

That’s a constant grid draw of at least 30MW. They don’t operate 24 hours a day so peak power draw is likely to be considerably higher. These are massive numbers.

We are not talking about a few services on a UPS, the site is drawing at least 30MW and that is a huge amount of power. There is a power station a few miles up the road from where I used to live, it’s entirely output going balls to the wall was only 38MW, it couldn’t power Heathrow’s peak demand on its own.