Help - bought a bad car.

[Eddie]

I would advise you didn't tell the garage you purchased the car from that you have had other Mechanics/Garages working on the car as this could void the warranty and annoy them.

Getting Ford to look at it is a good idea, but you need to give the garage that sold it to you a decent chance to look over it and resolve any issues.

I think you mentioned the vibration was on the steering wheel? If this is the case then I doubt it will be felt in the steering wheel. Normally, buckled / out of balanced wheels are felt in the seat (your arse).

Hard to tell from that picture but it would seem that the bolts don't match up entirely on the bell housing/block. This is NOT to say that this is wrong, one bolt missing is unlikely to cause an issue, however, it's not right.

They may fix the fluid leaks for you, depends where they are coming from.

Lesson learnt though fella, next time take a mechanic with you and have a thorough inspection of the car. Had this been a private seller you would be on your own now, sold as seen.

Yes, lesson learnt. I just thought things like this were a thing of the past. In my naivety, I thought there were things in place to protect people like us, but it seems there isn't.

Imo, it's just a scam market like everything else seems to be these days, everyone screwing each other over for £. The only way you can possibly absolutely gaurantee you're not being ripped off is to become an expert yourself and well, life's too short.

Our local mechanic was asked to make a visual inspection only, which he did, and the Ford place are going to do that too, so I don't see a problem. I'm not certain it's the best thing to do myself but a few people have recommended it in this thread and I made the thread to ask for advice, so that's all I can do.

The car is currently at the Ford place so I'll hear within 30-40 minutes or so.

Edit: and the main reason why we're taking it to get a second and third opinion is that I no longer trust a word the dealer says, which I think is understandable.

 

[G J]

I'm not surprised you lost trust in them, they already fobbed you off by saying they rebalanced the wheels and had they actually done that they would have seen the wheels where not in good shape. Had they actually test drove the vehicle after also they would have found the wheel wobble issue was still present but still chose to give it back to the you anyway.

Did this car have a brand new MOT on it also when you purchased it?

 

[Eddie]

I'm not surprised you lost trust in them, they already fobbed you off by saying they rebalanced the wheels and had they actually done that they would have seen the wheels where not in good shape. Had they actually test drove the vehicle after also they would have found the wheel wobble issue was still present but still chose to give it back to the you anyway.

Did this car have a brand new MOT on it also when you purchased it?

Yes it's got a full 12 months MOT. We contacted VOSA (is that right, the MOT inspectorate people?) and they said that they couldn't do anything because the car had had work done to it since the date of MOT.

Incidentally, our local mechanic said that the car should never have passed an MOT due to brake pipes and stuff being scabbed/corroded.

 

[Liampope]

Can you post up a larger res version of the first pic? What the girl on the phone said doesn't sound right!

Not really - I agree, I mean sounds OK generally if you want to be pedantic - one could lop bits of engine/gearbox off if one desired even if they fitted fine. But why would you? OP makes it clear enough bits have been lopped off/altered in order to make them fit, ergo they were not designed to fit, ergo this Fiesta is not as Henry Ford intended. They have to be 'almost right' or they wouldn't be even close to going together and wouldn't currently be together and working without a massive amount of work. Either item being different manufacturer is impossible, imho - just minor model year revisions I would have thought. Most likely explanation, imho, is some failure of g-box occured (or it could be the engine block but i think g-box much more likely), spare parts were sourced from a breaker, found to be slightly wrong, then bodged on rather than correct parts sourced.

That first picture fairly clearly shows one of the locating dowels on the engine is not located in any suitable receptacle in the box, and the box and/or the dowel has just been hacked away to fit. The potential issues I can see with that are...

1. If only 1 (or 0 ) engine-gearbox dowels are in place, the engine/box may not be perfectly concentric which could put undue load on the crank/clutch/flywheel/gearbox input shaft leading to early failure.
2. There should also almost certainly be one of the engine-box fastening bolts going through that dowel, which is not present in your photo. That means you're (at least) one bolt short of what Ford intended. Realistically there is plenty of strength in the remaining bolts assuming more arent similarly missing (usually around 6 in total) and your engine and gearbox are unlikely to part company, but I really wouldn't be 100% happy with that myself. Certainly if there really are important bolts missing, that alone would be good grounds to argue the car, as a result of this bodge, is not up to original spec and potentially dangerous, if you really want to reject it.

Looking forward to hear what Ford say!

 

[Eddie]

Can you post up a larger res version of the first pic? What the girl on the phone said doesn't sound right!

Apologies, I missed your post, I'll get the full-size one up in just a sec.

Not really - I agree, I mean sounds OK generally if you want to be pedantic - one could lop bits of engine/gearbox off if one desired even if they fitted fine. But why would you? OP makes it clear enough bits have been lopped off/altered in order to make them fit, ergo they were not designed to fit, ergo this Fiesta is not as Henry Ford intended. They have to be 'almost right' or they wouldn't be even close to going together and wouldn't currently be together and working without a massive amount of work. Either item being different manufacturer is impossible, imho - just minor model year revisions I would have thought. Most likely explanation, imho, is some failure of g-box occured (or it could be the engine block but i think g-box much more likely), spare parts were sourced from a breaker, found to be slightly wrong, then bodged on rather than correct parts sourced.

That first picture fairly clearly shows one of the locating dowels on the engine is not located in any suitable receptacle in the box, and the box and/or the dowel has just been hacked away to fit. The potential issues I can see with that are...

1. If only 1 (or 0 ) engine-gearbox dowels are in place, the engine/box may not be perfectly concentric which could put undue load on the crank/clutch/flywheel/gearbox input shaft leading to early failure.
2. There should also almost certainly be one of the engine-box fastening bolts going through that dowel, which is not present in your photo. That means you're (at least) one bolt short of what Ford intended. Realistically there is plenty of strength in the remaining bolts assuming more arent similarly missing (usually around 6 in total) and your engine and gearbox are unlikely to part company, but I really wouldn't be 100% happy with that myself. Certainly if there really are important bolts missing, that alone would be good grounds to argue the car, as a result of this bodge, is not up to original spec and potentially dangerous, if you really want to reject it.

Looking forward to hear what Ford say!

Thanks for that, I really don't have a clue as to the effect a wrong gear box may have on the rest of the car, so if what you are saying is correct then to me that sounds like perfect reason to reject the car, which goes back to my original thought that the car we were led to believe we were buying isn't the car we got.

Worryingly, I haven't heard anything from Ford yet and they said it would only take about 30-40 minutes and its been over an hour and a half.

 

[Eddie]

Right, just got back from Ford and it's even worse than I ever expected.

The number that I thought was the engine number isn't the engine number because it doesn't actually have an engine number on it!

Ford said exactly the same as our local mechanic with regard to the engine and gearbox, they don't actually know what they are, they said there's no way of telling with any confidence.

I've got the full results of the inspection here so I'll get my scanner set up and get a copy uploaded for you all to see, making sure to remove any personal info or anything.

 

[Liampope]

Huh?! Bizarre! Really surprised Ford can't identify the bits??? I mean surely there are at least part numbers visible, or simply the fact there are guys who must look at these bits every day??

Oh well - waiting for the full report!

 

[Hagar]

Ouch, thats money well spent with Ford (and local mechanic), you have a case i think.

 

[ubersonic]

But the engine in you pic looks exactly like the one on the Ford website! :S

http://www.ford.co.uk/Commercialvehicles/FiestaVan/Powertrain

 

[Jano]

I guess whoever did whatever they did to the engine took that Duratorq plaque bit and plonked it on in the right place? Wonder what it is.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

My vote it for a nicked engine and an older style box (although I'm not sure how the driveshafts would work unless the layout is identical).

Take your finding to the dealer and they will sort it out, it has possibly been taken in part ex and they did not know of the damage/engine. (I know my dad and his buyers don't check every single engine number with chassis numbers and log book and just do an HPI, unless the motor is high value). I say the car is probably part ex as there is no way the car would have come from an auction like that and the dealer not back it (unless they are a particularly **** dealer).

Good luck.

Edit: The engine is quite obviously a ford engine, I guess ford mean as there is no engine number they can't identify it.

 

[ubersonic]

I guess whoever did whatever they did to the engine took that Duratorq plaque bit and plonked it on in the right place? Wonder what it is.

Its a 1.4 Duratorq, like it says, why Ford couldn't recognise it I don't know.

 

[Jano]

Quite clearly the top matches, just seems a very odd statement for Ford to make saying they can't say with any confidence what it is.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

Quite clearly the top matches, just seems a very odd statement for Ford to make saying they can't say with any confidence what it is.

I'm 99.9999% certain that is not what ford are saying in the slightest. What I expect they are saying is, sorry we cannot identify this engine as it has no engine number.

Which is very different to them saying, sorry I do not know what that engine is.

Every part on the engine will have a ford part number just no engine number which means the engine cannot be traced to a chassis. What I also expect ford would say is as the history of the engine is untraceable it's not their problem.

 

[rodenal]

I'd go with the above - they know it's a 1.4 duratorque (the top end at least though I can't see how it couldn't be complete) but can't identify the specific engine or the box by the sounds of things as the stamps / plates have been removed.

 

[Jano]

I agree, but that's not what Shoot1st is saying at all, will have to wait and see what he comes back with I guess. I would guess Ford are trying to cover themselves and are being as vague as possible.

 

[Liampope]

Yes unfortunately it sounds like a somewhat unhelpful 'company line' sort of response. But the clear potentially dangerous bodge with the box and the fact the engine has no number is surely clear grounds to reject the car under SOGA. If I was OP I'd be seriously considering washing my hands of it.

 

[Hagar]

Mazda dagenham short engine and bellhousing with Fiesta top end and gearbox??

Any permutations?

Europe, trim levels were S, TS and TS2. The TS and TS2 were renamed Antares and Capella in 2004. The Japanese 1.3 and 1.5 petrol engines are not available, but Ford's 1.25-litre 16 valve Sigma engine is used, and Mazda's 1.4 and 1.6 petrol, plus Fords 1.4 TDCi diesel are offered, but called 1.4 CDTi by Mazda. (Virtually all the engine parts are interchangeable with the 1.4 Diesel versions of the Ford Fiesta and Ford Fusion of the same period). The Mazda2 is sold with a variety of Z-family engines:

My reasoning has been based on knowing previously about the mazda ford linkup.

Ford would not know the numbering system for the mazda parts. The electronic reporting would not necessarily be the same.

If the bellhousing mates with the engine, it will be the same manufacturer. But the gearbox for the mazda may be different. The head unit should be a direct match to the Mazda bottom end, bore and spacings etc. Short engines are just that. Bottom end and internals.

Short engine fitted with existing other bits. Visually identical.

 

[GeX]

Its a 1.4 Duratorq, like it says, why Ford couldn't recognise it I don't know.

It'll be that they can't tell the variant. For example, I know that the 1.4 16v engine that's in the FIAT Panda 100hp is also in the Stilo, Punto and Grande Punto. They're all 1368cc 16v FIAT petrol engines, but have differing characteristics and this is expressed via the engine code.

So they'll know it's a 1.4 Duratorq, but not the exact variant so can't confirm it belongs in that car.

You can also see from the engine bay picture that things like the turbo/exhaust heatshield is missing. It is rather bodged together!

 

[Eddie]

Here's our local mechanic's results (which any waning faith I might have had regarding him and his work has now been fully reversed )

Ford's results - two pages.

As far as I can see I have removed the various bits of information that could identify us or any of the garages involved so please let me know if you see something I've missed.

My gf has just actually reminded me, the dealers said that the car had just had a full service too. I'm almost laughing here, almost.

Another thing, while I remember, Ford got their MOT guy to give it the once over too, and he said that if the car was brought to him for an MOT he would have failed it for the buckled wheels and also the corroded pipes.