Hi-Setup Spec needed.

I think saying NAD is one step up from Rotel is an incorrect and far too general statement. Rotel do a wide range of amps, as do NAD.

I remember when I was buying my hifi, 15 at the time, I started with a budget of about £400, ended up spending £800. Was well worth it though, I kept the stuff for 5 years and never had any regrets. Sold it to fund my ever increasing car habit but sold it for little loss.

What I bought:
Arcam Alpha 7SE CD player (I still love this CD player, I improved it using a Non-oversampling DAC which I loved and didnt sell.)
Arcam Alpha 8R amplifier (Great amp, although I always wanted the 9 or 10)
B&W 602 speakers (i loved these, but you really need bigger than a 3x3m room to hear them at their best).

I'm guessing you've read the sticky, so you'll know that there is a lot to consider when buying a hifi. Room size and organisation are 2 major points.

Your best bet is to go for some standmount (otherwise known as bookshelf - DO NOT put them on a bookshelf) speakers, unless your room is bigger than 4m x 4m. I currently have floorstanders in a 3.5x3.5m room and they just dont sound right.

Assuming you go for standmounts this'll be your shopping list:

Amplifier (best going for an integrated with your budget) - ~£200
Speakers - ~£200
Speaker stands
Speaker wire
3.5mm -> phono (RCA) cable (or Dac & coax cable & RCA - RCA)

Source:
If you want to get the best from your system, I'd recommend an external DAC. I got one from www.diyparadise.com ("Monica 2") and I havent found anything this side of £1000 that beats it yet. It's $150 delivered, so with the current exchange rate, its a no brainer imho. You will need to know how to do a little bit of soldering though as you need to connect the RCA connectors, and you'll need a simple 1.5a 12v power supply (i use one from an old battery charger). Yeo is a helpful chap and he might solder on RCA connectors for you for a little bit extra if you ask nicely. He's sold 100s of these and they come highly recommended.

Amplifier wise:
There are a hell of a lot of good amplifiers out there. Arcam, NAD, Cyrus, Rega, Rotel, Linn, Marantz, Meridian, Naim. a lot of people rate Cambridge Audio too but no experience myself. Not a huge fan of rotel or Cyrus personally. I love Arcam, Marantz, Linn, Meridian and Naim (Linn, Meridian and Naim are higher end though). The great thing about amps is that, unlike PCs, a 20 year amp can easily hold it with some of the best modern amps. That means you can have high end sound for very little money. If going for second hand gear, generally each brand has a "sound", so if you like an arcam amp that is new, you're going to like its older equivalent.

My recommendations for second hand demo/purchase (completed listing from ebay price in brackets):

Naim Nait 1 (£155)
Naim Nait 3 (£200)
Naim Nait 5 (£205)
Arcam Alpha 9 (£145-£215)
Arcam Alpha 6+ (£125)
Arcam Delta 290 (£115) (same as Alpha 9)
Linn Majik (£130-150)
Marantz PM7200 (£125-185)
Marantz PM-66SE KI (£70-£115)
Marantz PM-6010SE KI (£100+)
Marantz PM-80 (£89 last one sold for on ebay!!!!)
MARANTZ PM17 (£205)
Meridian 551 (saw one go a while back for £210)
NAD C370 (£155-185)
NAD C350 (£75-£110)

All of the above would be miles better than anything you could buy for £200.

Once you have your Amplifier chosen it's on to speakers. You'll see power ratings on their specs, this isnt how much power they need to operate, this is generally their recommended maximum. I've heard speakers that can handle 250w being powered fine by a 45watt amplifier.
Personally, I love B&W and system audio, and I quite like KEF. a lot of people rate Mission and Wharfedale, but they dont appeal to me.

My recommendations:
B&W 601 (S2 or S3) £100-150
B&W 602 (S2 or S3) £160-190

Wont recommend any others as speakers are very personal, but they're the two I'd be looking at if I was looking for speakers under £200.

Stands are a great thing to pick up second hand as they can be had for next to nothing. If they are a good stand they'll be fairly beefy though, so finding some local to you is probably a good idea.


My main bit of advice to you is DEMO DEMO DEMO. When I bought my system I spent 4 weekends demo'ing stuff. I bought these mission speakers without demo and hate them (got all caught up with the price). I bought my current power amps after 22 years experience with them (same as my dads). Pre-amp is the updated model from the same system. (Meridian 201 preamp, Meridian 105 power amps). You can pick up a 201 for less than £120, and a pair of 105s for between £150 and £400. I would rate them along side some stuff costing about £5000 new now. I'm not the only one either :D My next upgrade will be to valve amps if I bother at all.

I've actually written quite a lot :o
 
Good post Commited but don't forget us Audiolab fans!

Audiolab 8000a for ~100-150 quid.

Audiolab 8000s for ~200.
 
Trick said:
Good post Commited but don't forget us Audiolab fans!

Audiolab 8000a for ~100-150 quid.

Audiolab 8000s for ~200.


Audiolab 8000Q for about £350. One hell of a pre-amp, with a great headphone stage.

I would skip the C/A and go straight for S.
 
:eek: WOW! committed did u stop for a breath!! thanks i feel a lot clearer about where i am going now! :) im gonna go for another wonder down to the hi fi shops near the gate again :) time to sell all my worthy pocessions and c what i see how much money i can get?
 
Not necessarily, again unlike PCs, spending more doesnt necessarily mean better. Just gotta be careful what you choose.

My Cd player/DAC/amp set up will have cost me around £350 (+cables which I have) when I'm done and I doubt I'll ever change it. Then again, I did get a ridiculous bargain on both poweramps :D I could have spent £3000 new and got worse results imho. It's looking like my speakers will be the expensive bit (£1500 for what I want :o )

I would 100% recommend getting an external non-oversampling dac (like the one I linked to), even using the onboard digital out from my laptop with mp3s the sound is fairly decent! It also gives you the option to buy a cheap CD player with a Digi out and have fantastic sound (£15 Philips CD723 is a decent choice :D )
 
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thanks another thing i am interested in is a DAB radio, would it be possible to have A DAB radio, cd player(may have found the one mentioned above) and my pc all to one amp?
 
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Yes. Although I think DAB radio sucks for sound quality. You could just use internet radio instead, if you have a fast connection. A Squeezebox can connect upto net radio stations.
 
Just got a Philips CD723 for £11, so i have to continue with this now lol :D been doing a bit of background on speakers to c what people are using for similar music tastes as me and ive seen quite a few wharfdale 9.1'sor B & W 601 what do people think of those?
 
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You keep making these throwaway statements. NAD are better than Rotel, there are better speakers than B&W etc. B&W do more than one speaker, at lots of price points. Therefore you can not generalise like that. It's all down to opinion - personally, I find B&W the best speakers in my experience. We have a pair of 802s in the house and had 602s. At each of these price points we couldnt find any better IN OUR OPINION. Others hate B&W - that's why there are so many speaker brands out there.

If you read the long post I did, I stated that others should suggest speakers for him to demo, as it's been a while since I've gone near the low budget stuff. And the speakers I was referring to in the above posts were the B&W and Wharfedale models he suggested. I'm simply encouraging him to demo rather than buy from other peoples experience.

Bryan - congrats on the CD player purchase. Read this:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/cd723_e.html
:) That sites great if you want to do some DIY stuff.
 
lol so you're not biased then? Don't like it when someone thinks B&W are mediocre speakers.

I haven't thrown speaker makes because he should listen to as many as possible...rather than just giving him one speaker brand and probably buying that without demoing any others.

The sound quality from B&W is acceptable, but not exactly refined.
 
I bought the CDP as an impulse by at the price, ive researched some speakers to go and listen to next is the amp, gonna compare the list with what i find people re using on av forums for rock then make a short list and c if i can get a demo of the amp+spekers :) or t lest the see wht the different mkes sound like and by the time ive done that i should have the cash plus an idea of what to buy :) thanks for the link, never new hi fi stuff was so complex!
 
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squiffy said:
lol so you're not biased then? Don't like it when someone thinks B&W are mediocre speakers.

I haven't thrown speaker makes because he should listen to as many as possible...rather than just giving him one speaker brand and probably buying that without demoing any others.
Haha, no you misunderstood what I meant. I dont care what you think of B&W speakers, as I said - I know people who hate the sound, but my point is that your statement that "there are better speakers" isnt exactly accurate, as it is all down to opinion. Go have a look at my long post, I suggested loads of speaker manufacturers ;)

May I ask, out of interest what speakers you have, and what B&W speakers you're basing this against?
 
bryanlaycock said:
I bought the CDP as an impulse by at the price, ive researched some speakers to go and listen to next is the amp, gonna compare the list with what i find people re using on av forums for rock then make a short list and c if i can get a demo of the amp+spekers :) or t lest the see wht the different mkes sound like and by the time ive done that i should have the cash plus an idea of what to buy :) thanks for the link, never new hi fi stuff was so complex!
Sounds like a good plan. Then again, I would REALLY strongly urge you to buy a second hand amp, as its the perfect second hand buy.
smoove said:
So what exactly does a DAC do? Oh and what would the difference between a normal amp, than a pre and power amp?
A DAC is a digital to audio converter. Every CD player has one - it changes the 0's and 1's into an analogue signal that your amplifier can amplify. The DAC makes the largest difference to the sound of a CD, so its important to choose carefully. I went for the Non oversampling design as I find it makes CDs more vinyl like (in warmth of sound, not crackly etc :p )

A "normal" amp aka integrated has a Pre and Power amp contained within it.
A Pre-amp is basically the stage that lets you adjust volume and select inputs.

The power amp stage is the part that takes the signal from the pre-amp and amplifies it to be played through your speakers.
 
smoove said:
So what exactly does a DAC do? Oh and what would the difference between a normal amp, than a pre and power amp?

Pre and Power are the two basic stages of the amplification process. The pre-amp takes the signal and processes it, adding any tonal changes such as treble and bass. The power stage then amplifies it and sends the signal to the speakers.

An integrated amp such as the one-box amps people normaly associate with the word 'amplifier' has these two stages placed together. As far as the user is concerned the pre and power stages are seamlessly integrated.

People buy seperate Preamps and Power amps rather than Integrated amps to try and seperate the delicate signals from each other. Stuff like the psu can quite drastically affect the quality of the signal and to get the 'best' results it's often a plan to keep things isolated.

[edit] doh, beaten to it!
 
Commited said:
I'd recommend an external DAC. I got one from www.diyparadise.com ("Monica 2") and I havent found anything this side of £1000 that beats it yet. It's $150 delivered, so with the current exchange rate, its a no brainer imho. You will need to know how to do a little bit of soldering though as you need to connect the RCA connectors, and you'll need a simple 1.5a 12v power supply (i use one from an old battery charger)

I've just splashed out on a Derek Shek D2 NOSDAC after much umming and ahhring and reading up on them on avforums and zerogain. I think it should work nicely with my setup and save me having to rely on the X-FI's onboard DAC.

I also took a plunge and bought a set of Chord Crimson to go with it - I've been very happy with my Chord Chrysalis 3.5mm -> phono cable so far and the Crimson seems to be the replacement to that.

Piccies to follow when it arrives.
 
Trick said:
I've just splashed out on a Derek Shek D2 NOSDAC after much umming and ahhring and reading up on them on avforums and zerogain. I think it should work nicely with my setup and save me having to rely on the X-FI's onboard DAC.

I also took a plunge and bought a set of Chord Crimson to go with it - I've been very happy with my Chord Chrysalis 3.5mm -> phono cable so far and the Crimson seems to be the replacement to that.

Piccies to follow when it arrives.
we have that exact dac in the house too, the monica 2 beats it imho and is cheaper - win, win. It's still an excellent dac though - currently using it with an Arcam 6 CD, meridian pre/power combo and 802s.
 
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