High load temps on new W/C Loop

[stuie]

Fair enough, but I think your loop has considerably more cooling power, if your sig is up to date, even with the additional graphics cards

I will post some pictures of the rig later on when I have a chance.

Yes but the rads cool the water down, if it was a raddage issue the water would get hot and it would be a slower increase not a big immediate jump

 

[scotsdragon]

I had the V8 kit with the XSPC 750, sr1 240 upgrade granted its a thicker rad , on a 3570k oc'ed to 4.5ghz (I think I was around 1.28 volts) and highest INT burn test got to was high 70's, so your temp is abit toasty.

 

[nutsnut]

Definitely an issue, 3770k at 4.5ghz with 1.25v only hits 80c under intel burn test using a corsair H80 AIO.

 

[Kangaxx]

Right, so following on from various advise, I have totally removed the O/C, so the CPU is now back at 3.4 ghz, stock volts (1.15v), and the max temp I have seen under stress is 73 degrees on one core. I left the stress test running for 8 loops, and that's the max temp seen.

I tried to feel the temperature of the Rad and the Piping, and neither seems particularly warm or hot to touch. Then, again, I am roasting, so may not be able to feel the temperature very well.

As promised, here are some hasty pictures of the loop...

Thanks again.

 

[ubersonic]

Okay if that setup is hitting 73c at stock then something is very wrong so that rules out any issue with the OC or any settings. From what you describe about the rad/piping temps I would say this looks to be some kind of flow rate issue, it sounds to me like the coolant isn't moving fast enough to get the heat off the CPU as fast as it needs to and so the CPU is reaching higher temps than it should.

 

[Kangaxx]

Okay if that setup is hitting 73c at stock then something is very wrong so that rules out any issue with the OC or any settings. From what you describe about the rad/piping temps I would say this looks to be some kind of flow rate issue, it sounds to me like the coolant isn't moving fast enough to get the heat off the CPU as fast as it needs to and so the CPU is reaching higher temps than it should.

This was my train of thought as well. Unfortunately, I am not 100% sure of the best way to proceed. As I have alluded to before, the kit was bought from OcUK, but I cannot see how I can prove the Pump is under performing without some kind of flow monitor.

I haven't had as much chance to fiddle this week, as I have been working in the evenings. I may check the mounting of the block, again, to see if it can go tighter tomorrow, if I have time.

 

[Five.Stars]

Is the chip OEM or retail? Assuming it is a retail chip, then it must still be under warranty - given the temp differential - which you insist was also there with your air cooler, then there is a 99% chance (IMO) of there being a fault internally on the CPU. The temp of core #0 is what I would expect all cores to be at +/- 5 or 6 degrees at most.

There is something wrong with your cpu, whether that be the contact with the IHS or something to do with the VRM's which I believe are on the motherboard with Ivybridge. The only way to really narrow down the 2 is to try get hold of another Ivy cpu and try it in your board. If the temps variance is still there, then you have a faulty board. If it isn't, then it points to a faulty cpu. You could obviously attempt to "fix" the cpu by delidding, but if it is under warranty I would head down that route firstly.

 

[NoobCannon]

Is the pump a d5? Try adjusting the speed on the back, put it to no 5 and re test.

 

[Kangaxx]

Is the chip OEM or retail? Assuming it is a retail chip, then it must still be under warranty - given the temp differential - which you insist was also there with your air cooler, then there is a 99% chance (IMO) of there being a fault internally on the CPU. The temp of core #0 is what I would expect all cores to be at +/- 5 or 6 degrees at most.

It was part of another bundle from OcUK. It was pre-clocked by them, so you would have hoped, if the CPU is indeed faulty, that they would have noticed this. As such, I am not sure if its retail or OEM. I will dig up the invoice and see if it alludes to it on there.

Is the pump a d5? Try adjusting the speed on the back, put it to no 5 and re test.

Not a d5, no. XSPC 750.

 

[stuie]

Is the chip OEM or retail? Assuming it is a retail chip, then it must still be under warranty - given the temp differential - which you insist was also there with your air cooler, then there is a 99% chance (IMO) of there being a fault internally on the CPU. The temp of core #0 is what I would expect all cores to be at +/- 5 or 6 degrees at most.

There is something wrong with your cpu, whether that be the contact with the IHS or something to do with the VRM's which I believe are on the motherboard with Ivybridge. The only way to really narrow down the 2 is to try get hold of another Ivy cpu and try it in your board. If the temps variance is still there, then you have a faulty board. If it isn't, then it points to a faulty cpu. You could obviously attempt to "fix" the cpu by delidding, but if it is under warranty I would head down that route firstly.

I dont believe its the cpu or the board as this setup was running fine on air

Can you see any flow in your res?

 

[pastymuncher]

I have one of my cores running 9 degrees hotter than the rest. It's just the awful way Intel has done the TIM on the cpu's. If it was fine on air it has to be a problem with the kit. Take the watercooling to bits. Take the pump and dip the inlet in a bucket of water, say 10 litres, and time how long it takes to empty the bucket. You can then work out your flow rate.

 

[Five.Stars]

I dont believe its the cpu or the board as this setup was running fine on air

Can you see any flow in your res?

He says there is a temp variance between cores #0 and the rest of 20-30 degrees at load whether on air or water - that suggest a problem with the contact between the die and ihs in my opinion.

 

[Five.Stars]

In fact I will go 1 step further and say, having re-read the op again where it would appear everything was fine with the mount doom air cooler - this may simply be due to the weight of that cooler when it was installed, pushing down pressing the ihs on to the die creating a better contact with the ihs and the die.

I could be completely off here, but it certainly sounds plausible. There certainly should no be a 20-30 degrees variance in core temps. Even 10 degrees variance is quite unusual. Cores are usualyy within 5-6 degrees of each other, although ocasionaly chips will have slightly higher variance. I have never come across a cpu with 20-30 degree variance between 1 core and all the rest.

 

[stuie]

As per post 12, it looks like he tightened top then bottom, core 0 is at the top so id be tempted to remount again using the diagonal method

bottom left - top right - bottom right - top left

see if that helps

 

[Five.Stars]

As per post 12, it looks like he tightened top then bottom, core 0 is at the top so id be tempted to remount again using the diagonal method

bottom left - top right - bottom right - top left

see if that helps

The Raystorm has a terrible installation method from my recollection, but anytime I mount a cooler I try tighten on the diaganol and tighen top left bottom right at same time as each other and then top righ bottom left. Or vice versa, bit I always tighten 2 at same time on the diaganol.

 

[Kangaxx]

I dont believe its the cpu or the board as this setup was running fine on air

True, but I think the temperature readings are a bit strange in that 1 core is always about 20 degrees cooler than the others, and that did occur with the old cooler. It doesn't explain why things are warmer on the water than on air though.

Can you see any flow in your res?

Yes, I can see the liquid swirling in the Res window. Like I said, I am positive the pump is working and circulating fluid. Surely the idle temps would be sky high if the pump was not moving any liquid round the loop?

 

[Kangaxx]

The Raystorm has a terrible installation method from my recollection

I totally agree with you. The back plate mounting is pretty poor, as the adhesive area is minuscule on the 1155 backplate, so the backplate always falls off when attempting to screw in the mounting screws. In the end, i had to place a small box underneath the backplate, to stop it falling off while i was attempting to mount the block. Doesn't leave you feeling like you have a good mount in any case!

anytime I mount a cooler I try tighten on the diaganol and tighen top left bottom right at same time as each other and then top righ bottom left. Or vice versa, bit I always tighten 2 at same time on the diaganol.

I will look at re-seating the block again tonight (3rd times a charm) and follow the above. I was tempted to totally remove the mobo from the chassis, and attempt to mount the block externally, and then plumb it in once the mobo is re-seated in the chassis.

If things get desperate, I will look at trying this. Mainly, just to ensure I am getting a good mount on the CPU!

Take the pump and dip the inlet in a bucket of water, say 10 litres, and time how long it takes to empty the bucket. You can then work out your flow rate.

Good idea. After thinking about it, that should be possible. It will mean taking apart the loop, but at this stage, I think its going to be a necessary step to rule things out.

I do have an oldish pump which i got from Innovatek (W/C oldies may recognize that name), but the barbs on it are the wrong size. I will see if I can potentially get this hooked up on the loop, to see if it makes any difference as well. All depends if the threads on it are 1/4".

I will try and get at least some, if not all of the above done tonight, but work again will likely intrude, so some things may have to wait until I have more time.

 

[Kangaxx]

Ok, so I found time this evening to strip the PC down, drain the system, test the pumps, remove the motherboard, remount the block, re-install everything, prime the watercooling, and get it all back up and running.

Pump

This turns out to be operating fine. I performed the test, as advised by pastymuncher. Calculated the flow rate to what OcUK say it should be and it is bang on. As such, we must assume that the pump is working as it should. I did, for a laugh, manage to hook up my old eheim 1046, which actually has a better flow rate, but is more cumbersome, noisy and intrusive that the XSPC 750, so it's not going to be used.

CPU/Block

I bled the system, and removed the CPU block. The thermal paste had spread evenly over the block and the IHS. Removed the motherboard from the chassis, cleaned everything, and remounted the block. Was so much easier with the motherboard being flat on my desk. See attached pictures, showing the mountings once done...

and the other side...

Then tightened the lower bolts, til they would not turn any more...

Spoiler

Big picture, hence the spoiler window...

I followed the previous instructions, so tightened 2 corners at a time, until they were all pretty tight, and then finished them off individually.

Re-installed the motherboard, etc. etc. Re-plumbed the loop, re-filled it, bled it once again (tilted the chassis 90 degrees each way, to ensure all the air was out of the system). Leak tested and then re-booted PC.

So, have the temperatures improved?

No, not really, they are still where they were before. I suppose they are marginally better, but nothing to get excited about. Screen of latest burn test below..

Yes, we still have the weird Core 0 reading. That has always been there, so I am guessing I have a screwy CPU.

I am thinking I may stop there. The temps never get this high under "normal" use, so I am not concerned that my CPU is going to overheat etc. Maybe I am just unlucky in having a hot CPU, who knows. The PC is quieter and much nicer to live with than with the old air cooling system, so at least there is that.

If anyone can think of anything further, by all means share.

Thnx for reading.

 

[pastymuncher]

This is weird!! That's a hell of a difference with core 0 even if Intel did screw up the TIM on the cpu. Did it do that under air? If it did the same under air cooling can you try the sensor test on RealTemp. I have not heard of it happening on socket 1156/1155/1150 but it used to be a problem on socket 775's 45nm cpu's. The one or more of the sensors would hit a certain temp and then not go any further and that's where the sensor test came from. I know that won't cure the high temps but it may shine some light on that core 0 disparity.

As for the high temps which should not be happening with that setup, aside from a blockage in the radiator or the block itself the only other thing that could cause it would be a warped or bowed base on the block. You can check that with a flat edge such as a steel rule or similar. You did tighten it gradually at diagonally opposite corners this time? Say, top left/bottom right a few turns, then top right/bottom left a few turns and so on?

 

[Danny75]

Anyway, onto the problem. It's all running now, great. Idle temps are slightly lower than they were with my K2 Mount DOOOOM (about 30 degrees now), but the load temperatures are off the scale.

I know a strange issue has been found with core heat difference, but out of curiosity, what RPM are the rad fans running at, when on load?