Hillsborough police chief David Duckenfield cleared of manslaughter

[Dis86]

Crowd mentality didn't open an exit gate, crowd mentality didn't fail to close the entrance to the central pens, crowd mentality didn't begin spreading lies about those two issues as people were dying in the stands, to cover their arse, instead of doing something to save lives.

It didn't. It did however cause those towards the back, middle, etc. to keep exerting pressure on those in front of them. If you don't have that pressure you don't have a crush. That's why when standing in an orderly queue the person at the front doesn't get crushed however if someone shoves at the back or even bumps once you will get that forward momentum which can have the person at the front flat on their face.
You see the same effect in queues of traffic where one person at the front may drop their speed by 10mph but cars further towards the back come to a stand-still and the distance between vehicles dramatically decreases.

 

[J35T3R]

Fencing off fans was never really a great idea in any case, H&S concerns of people's wellbeing was never a major concern back then either, a combination of many factors involved, was any one individual to actually blame?

If there wasnt such a scramble to blame the fans and subsequent Sun headlines would the question still be asked till this day? I'm sure the families would still want answers but the recent revelations from a few years back may only be as much of an answer anyone will ever hope to get.

 

[BUDFORCE]

I hate the mentality we have that something has to be someones fault or someone to blame?

Why?

It was a tragic event sure, one hopefully lessons have been learned from and will never be repeated, but **** happens.

 

[neckbeardthethird]

I hate the mentality we have that something has to be someones fault or someone to blame?

Why?

Because in this case it clearly was down to the police being at fault, as proven by the in depth inquest.

 

[BUDFORCE]

Because in this case it clearly was down to the police being at fault, as proven by the in depth inquest.

Court says otherwise?

 

[BaZ87]

It didn't. It did however cause those towards the back, middle, etc. to keep exerting pressure on those in front of them. If you don't have that pressure you don't have a crush. That's why when standing in an orderly queue the person at the front doesn't get crushed however if someone shoves at the back or even bumps once you will get that forward momentum which can have the person at the front flat on their face.
You see the same effect in queues of traffic where one person at the front may drop their speed by 10mph but cars further towards the back come to a stand-still and the distance between vehicles dramatically decreases.

This was discussed at length in the previous thread. Football supporters were treated like cattle in those days and used to being herded into pens. If you believe that those supporters entering a pen that would have appeared no different to any other game, were a contributing factor then fine. By your thinking somebody that gets hit by a car that jumps a red light contributed to their own death too.

 

[Janesy B]

"He will now be able to resume his life in retirement on the south coast. But the Hillsborough families and survivors will find the outcome hard to take… and will ask hard questions about the £65m spent on a criminal investigation which has ended with no one convicted for so many lives lost."

Sounds like they just want someone to hang at the cross.

 

[BUDFORCE]

"He will now be able to resume his life in retirement on the south coast. But the Hillsborough families and survivors will find the outcome hard to take… and will ask hard questions about the £65m spent on a criminal investigation which has ended with no one convicted for so many lives lost."

Sounds like they just want someone to hang at the cross.

My point exactly, convicting this guy of a crime wont bring those people back.

 

[BaZ87]

Sounds like they just want someone to hang at the cross.

Or they want the man chiefly responsible for their loved ones death to be held to account.

Even if people put the fatal decisions he made that day in the build up to the disaster down to honest mistakes, theres no excuses for his actions during and after the disaster. As people were dying in the stands, instead of taking actions to save those lives (as the match commander did some years earlier at the same ground when Spurs fans were being crushed), he was more concerned with covering his arse, spreading lies that supporters had forced the exit gate open when in fact he gave the order to open it.

 

[Janesy B]

Something like this is too big to pin on one person.

 

[BaZ87]

Something like this is too big to pin on one person.

No, theres numerous others but he was the man most responsible. He took the decisions that primarily caused the crush, he took the decision to lie and treat the incident as hooliganism to cover his arse, rather than order officers to open the gates of the pens.

 

[Dis86]

This was discussed at length in the previous thread. Football supporters were treated like cattle in those days and used to being herded into pens. If you believe that those supporters entering a pen that would have appeared no different to any other game, were a contributing factor then fine. By your thinking somebody that gets hit by a car that jumps a red light contributed to their own death too.

No. It would be more akin to you waiting at the crossing, seeing a car about to jump a red light and me being behind you bumping into you in am effort to cross.
You can see the hazard. I can't. I'm just trying to get where I want to go.

 

[wedrum]

the father with the 2 daughters kills me everytime i read it, so sad.
to me this guy should be accounted for not let off, thats my opinion.

 

[BaZ87]

No. It would be more akin to you waiting at the crossing, seeing a car about to jump a red light and me being behind you bumping into you in am effort to cross.
You can see the hazard. I can't. I'm just trying to get where I want to go.

No, they didn't see a hazard. They entered a football stadium the same way they had, in some cases, over 100 times before.

the father with the 2 daughters kills me everytime i read it, so sad.
to me this guy should be accounted for not let off, thats my opinion.

Indeed, I can't imagine having to be faced with the decision he had to make that day.

 

[dowie]

Fencing off fans was never really a great idea in any case, H&S concerns of people's wellbeing was never a major concern back then either, a combination of many factors involved, was any one individual to actually blame?

Well it seems his defence lawyer has used that - that fencing off fans, design of the stadium etc.. is to blame too and can't all be pinned on him.

It doesn't sit too well IMO, he was ultimately in charge that day and ought to have some responsibility for the disaster - though I'm no legal expert and so don't have an opinion either way re: whether he should have been convicted in this instance.

 

[Suicidal Ferret]

The fact hes admitted he lied to the FA numerous times about really important factors, leads me to believe he can't be trusted.

He was the head honcho, in charge of everything.

The only reason he's not inside right now, is because the whole case has been drawn out to deliberately weaken the prosecution's case. People have died since, important documents no longer exist (suprise suprise) and people's memories.

This happened 30 years ago. 30, let that sink in. He's literally gotten away with manslaughter

**** happens?

Try saying that when your kid goes to a footy match and comes back in a coffin.

 

[wedrum]

Indeed, I can't imagine having to be faced with the decision he had to make that day.

so sad for them all, but this one really really grabs me no one should ever have to make that decision or go through that. so sad

 

[Yozz76]

Didn't expect anything different sadly. Duckenfield is a member of the establishment.

In the UK, every prosecution over a death in police custody in the past 15 years ended with acquittal. (2002-2017).

The establishment is rotten to the core, it wants to use and abuse the working class and nothing more. Grind as much work out of them for as little outlay as possible. Send them to die in foreign lands. Treat them like animals.

Until the entire establishment is dismantled this will happen time and again.

Little has changed since that day in Sheffield. The echoes of it in Grenfell are sickening. As long as it's the working classes that suffer, the establishment will not care one bit. As far as the establishment is concerned, the working class are lower than vermin.

So many people have been lost who deserve to still be alive, much more so than those silver spoon, peado enabling masonic devils.

The entire system is wrecked and has been for generation upon generation.

It's a class war and they've a vested interest in making sure as many of the working classes don't know it is.

They want an ill educated, ignorant, servile workforce who they can exploit in any way they want.

Duckenfield was never going to be found guilty of anything in a UK court.

Before you ask, yes I'm angry.

 

[Thekwango]

while he appears to be an utterly contemptible **** of a human being i don't think that it would be the correct thing to pin the entirety of the blame for the 96 deaths soley on Duckenfield. that said, is there no crimes he can be charged with in relation to lies he told and stood by? (i haven't kept up to date with all the details so apologies if this is covered somewhere already)

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

From the documentaries I have watched the whole incident was clearly caused by a series of events.
I always found that it odd that the fans were deemed to hold zero blame. Bevvied up Scousers showing up late without tickets and pushing at the turnstiles, then running in like manics were at least a contributor to the awful accident that followed. This is extremely obvious in any documentary on the matter.

No doubt that David Duckenfield holds some blame, but I was 1 year old when said event occurred. They really need to let this one go.