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Hillsborough police chief David Duckenfield cleared of manslaughter

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dowie, Nov 28, 2019.

  1. Thekwango

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 5, 2009

    Posts: 11,733

    Location: Northern Ireland

    you need to watch better documentaries dude.
    however, i did always find it strange that the inquiry concluded fans were 100% blameless. i'd have thought at least some, even a small proportion, should have had a measure of blame directed at them but given the utterly disgusting behaviour and attempted coverup by the police in the aftermath of the disaster i'm not surprised there was somewhat of a 'whitewash' in the other direction.
     
  2. Dis86

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 23, 2011

    Posts: 23,830

    Location: Northern England

    So they didn't see the fences, walls and people they were being crushed against as a hazard?!
     
  3. Dis86

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 23, 2011

    Posts: 23,830

    Location: Northern England

    And that's my point. After the complete mess initially and the reaction of those with an emotional interest they will never apportion blame against some of the fans.
     
  4. builder22

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 14, 2005

    Posts: 3,075

    It's impossible to put yourself in the shoes of someone who's directly involved with this but it's hard to see how any action taken now (or even much closer to the time) can help, in any way
     
  5. Burnsy2023

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Nov 17, 2003

    Posts: 36,442

    Location: Southampton, UK

    All jury judgements whether in a criminal or coroners court are subjective. They are the consensus of feeling in a room about the evidence on a given day. Juries make mistakes like any other group of people and to suggest that because one jury had a verdict a particular way means that it's an objective fact that something happened in a particular way is nonsense. That equally applies to both verdicts.
     
  6. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 12,686

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Same for any wrongful death. Does that mean we never prosecute?
     
  7. rubberduck

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 8, 2004

    Posts: 4,046

    It's hardly like dukenfield has 'got off' with anything though is it? Assuming he isn't an emotionless psychopath one would think not a day goes by when he is able to forget what his decisions contributed to. Yes his suffering cannot be compared to the victims and their families but I expect there has been very little joy in his life for the past 30+ years. He is probably pretty much a broken shell of his former self so what good would locking him up ultimately do? Perhaps it would make the victim's families feel better but that does not make it the right thing to do.
     
  8. rxodium

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Sep 26, 2019

    Posts: 494

    British establishment in "mistakes were made" and that they've "learned from those mistakes" and that "this can never be allowed to happen again" but nobody will ever be jailed for it shocker.
     
  9. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 25,383

    Mob justice anyone?

    /not a call for or enthusiasm for action, but damn... Justice really doesn't deliver in this country, just more fuel for vigilantism and a general breakdown of the social contract if **** like this continues.
     
  10. Malevolence

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 21, 2011

    Posts: 14,252

    Location: Miercna rīce

    Yes it does, it's just that you don't agree with the outcome.
     
  11. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 25,383

    Ah I'm sure that'll work for the victims.
     
  12. hurfdurf

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 17, 2009

    Posts: 8,727

    Delay, dementia and die. A simple tactic for getting out of any consequences for serious negligence and crimes.
     
  13. omnomnom

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 6,599

    I have friends who were there that day...one had to jump to the upper tier to avoid being crushed. He still refuses to talk about it...why should he and others let it go?

    He wasnt killed and it still cuts him up to this day.

    People really need to read the inquest before saying people need to "let it go".
     
  14. omnomnom

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 6,599

    Is this a serious post? Do you really think they had a choice!!?

    The only person who had a choice was Duckenfield.
     
  15. a1ex2001

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 12,810

    Location: Here and There...

    The bar for conviction for this crime is set incredibly high and the jury felt that the evidence didn’t meet this standard. That doesn’t absolve him of blame and neither has he said he wasn’t to blame he eventually admitted that during the enquiry.

    I’d have been much more interested in seeing him charged and jailed for some sort of misconduct in a public office relating to his lies and cover up. Opening the gate was a genuine mistake lying about it and blaming the victims was a disgrace.
     
  16. Von Smallhausen

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Aug 1, 2004

    Posts: 12,584

    Location: Tyneside

    Have to agree with that. When I started going to matches at St Jame's Park back in the early to mid 80s, I wouls either be in what is now the Milburn Stand or the Gallowgate end and the crush and surges were a regular occurrence. It was bags of fun back in the day but I think about it today and it was potentially life threatening.
     
  17. Von Smallhausen

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Aug 1, 2004

    Posts: 12,584

    Location: Tyneside

    Are you privvy to details that the jury was not ? I doubt they found David Duckenfield not guilty for ****s and giggles.

    Justice has delivered in that he has been found not guilty albeit not justice in your eyes.
     
  18. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 25,383

    Its 2019, in a devolving country, so i simply wont be surprised if someone took their own justice and not care about the consequences.
     
  19. Dis86

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 23, 2011

    Posts: 23,830

    Location: Northern England

    Of course it's serious, you should be asking baz that about his post! Do you think he has a choice in the scenario I'm posting about?

    Your final statement is wrong. Many people bad choices and made the wrong ones.
     
  20. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 25,383

    When you're life is at risk, you're options are limited by the person pushing behind you, the people to your sides and the people in front of you blocking exits when in a crowd... there is little point in blaming the victims for the stupidity that comes from groupthink.

    It is and always will be a management problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-disasters-happen-and-how-they-can-be-avoided