Really clear. Thanks.
Not seen it written like this before. (unless you wrote it yourself)
Hmrc - ebay/airbnb/vinted etc new rules - 1st Jan 2024
- Thread starter 413x
- Start date
Not seen it written like this before. (unless you wrote it yourself)
Soldato
And its perfectly legitimate to have some trading activity and some personal sales of old items.
They are different allowances and can be correctly treated as such.
Eg a Lego example
Buying a limited item, keeping it "Brand new in box" and selling later is trading.
Buying another of the same, opening it, making it and then selling some time later is selling a personal item.
In fact unless you sell the same opened item more than once you would likely be able to argue all opened items were yours and not traded, unless you can clearly see any of the opened items having been only recently purchased.
Bear in mind HMRC don't like obvious attempts to split incorrectly across multiple allowances, and if they decide your liable for tax they tend to select the position thats most beneficial for "them".
They are different allowances and can be correctly treated as such.
Eg a Lego example
Buying a limited item, keeping it "Brand new in box" and selling later is trading.
Buying another of the same, opening it, making it and then selling some time later is selling a personal item.
In fact unless you sell the same opened item more than once you would likely be able to argue all opened items were yours and not traded, unless you can clearly see any of the opened items having been only recently purchased.
Bear in mind HMRC don't like obvious attempts to split incorrectly across multiple allowances, and if they decide your liable for tax they tend to select the position thats most beneficial for "them".
Yeah it is lego. It started with having some old sets (the high value ones) and seeing those go up I decided to try and buy/sell.
Tbh obviously others have had same. Idea and it hasn't panned out. Ie it's not worth my time. Especially as salary has increased making time even more important.
We are talking sometimes 30 pounds profit on a set after 2 years. Sometimes zero.
So. I've been hoarding stuff and hoping to resell Later. But with appreciation now basically non existent it's a bit of a waste Of my time. Especially with this.
But I still have lots to offload. I was hoping to ramp this up. Never even thought the 1000 was sales (otherwise I'd never have done it).
I've got sets costing 250 that after 2 years are only 270.
The only gems at my unbuilt sets from years ago that I just have. (namely my porsche and batmobile)
This is annoying (and totally my fault) for assuming 1000 was profit.
I'll simply string out the sales of lego over years now to get rid but keep under the 1000 trading.
It was a nice little thing that's turned into a burden. And now is even more of a burden.
Last edited:
Soldato
My wife uses my eBay account to offload collectibles to make space to buy new ones. Sometimes she makes money on them but just to be safe I’ve transferred my eBay account over to her so she can use any allowances as I usually use all of mine through shares etc. I doubt it would be triggered as a trading as it’s not multiples of the same model.
Soldato
oh I have a Batmobile set, and the Ecco one and BTTF.. but they are built and sat on my shelf collecting dust.. lol
The first step is acceptance then trying to find a way around it that the least costly in time and money.. but I did say in the side hustles thread something that was quite polarising and that it’s a waste of time…
I’m in the same boat with video games and yugioh cards, it started off as a hobby to collect old video games that I used to play and buying cards to complete a deck structure but seeing how much some games and cards was going for I started targeting particular games and cards.. don’t get me wrong, I haven’t cornered the market in a certain game or card like some people have done to drive up prices. But I have sat there for hours going looking at listings after listings.
The issue is that I’m too much of a hoarder and dread selling stuff as some people are just *****, so I have a loft full of collectables.. I’ve binned it off ages ago once i saw games companies was releasing old games in digital format, a game which I was hunting down was selling for £150 pounds all of a sudden dropped to £20 as you could buy it digitally for a fiver. With cards, there’s normally reprints… it’s a mugs game unless you really make a business of it.
the can be said for lego, I know there’s a short run on how long a set is made and sold.. I had to travel to the other side of Manchester to pickup the Batmobile as I wanted to play with it. But BTTF set was selling for loads more than its RRP at one point and I seen it for sale again recently. Ecco one has been released as a better and bigger version.
Caporegime
I have about 10 Lego sets I bought, just single, no duplicates, that I haven't had a chance to open, due to the fact that I don't have the space to put them and it is easier to put away in the box....like the Porsche GT3RS. Which now attract 3x the value I paid.
I guess I could easily prove that it is no trading since I have never sold lego on eBay, or any platform for that matter. Heck I rarely sell anything, too much of a hoarder, that's my problem.
Caporegime
That happened in 2008 my friend. We have just been kicking the can down the road for 15 year but all the chickens are coming home to roost now!
Soldato
Tricky one.
I guess what may support your case is if they were purchased quite close together, so you defence is "i started buying sets planning to make them then realised I didnt have space and put them away never to get round to doing them"
If purchased over a long period (say 2+ years) the defence is harder, because it looks more like a buying stuff to hold to sell later.
On balance of probabilities you look like someone planning to sell later.
Its not clear cut its always going to be open to interpretation. Playing safe may well make sense in your case.
Caporegime
Most of them were bought in a few years between 2010-2015. But one set is so long I forgot, the UCS x-wing (2nd gen, end of cycle time), I've only bought like 1 set in the past 3 years - the Landrover Defender.
I do this a lot, I have a ton of old PS1 games I bought during uni that I thought "I will play it during the summer holiday"....that was 20 years ago! So I bought Lego thinking “something to do over Christmas!” And never got round to it and bought a ton. I have opened a few and built, like the Batman Tumbler, the Mini and VW camper, so it’s not all unopened.
But the FOMO factor keeps me buying them, like I keep thinking I want BTTF car because I love the design…except i probably won’t built it due to space hence not bought it.
Last edited:
They will ask you to submit a self assessment, which will have entries for revenue. profit (or loss) and equally income from other sources e.g. PAYE.
At the end, it will give you a shiny calculation.
Soldato
You would probably need to impulsive idiot defence.
IE you buy things with little chance of actually using them when you should know better.
Soldato
I’m going for the… I’m a ****head defence..You would probably need to impulsive idiot defence.
IE you buy things with little chance of actually using them when you should know better.
I had a photo pop up on my fb timeline from 10 years ago of a shopping trip and I still have designed clothes in its packaging, let alone removed the price tag from them.
I also managed to buy the same video game (kingdom hearts 3) three times, twice by mistake lol…
For me I have no record of purchasing the items I sold
We don't know how this is going to play out yet.
I guess its going to be case by case basis, does it specifically look like your sales were trading or more likely personal items i.e. selling 100x the same type of lego set is clearly trading, but selling a bunch of different items from your garage would not.
I don't know without knowing the types of items you're selling though.
No they're all unique pieces of hi-fi equipment or other junk. I sold a 10 year old turntable for £2000, that's the most expensive item
I'd say most people know if they're trading or just selling a lot of their own stuff and if tapped by the HMRC and you think you aren't trading you'll be able to argue your case. If they do investigate you, they'll look at a range of things, like your social media to see if you're advertising etc It'll all go towards painting the picture of whether you are just selling your old stuff or actively buying and selling.
I did hear on the radio and repeated in this article about trading limits before being reported
Sell on eBay, Etsy or Vinted or rent your home on Airbnb? Firms will now report your earnings to HMRC – so check if you need to pay tax
Firms such as eBay, Etsy, Vinted and Airbnb will soon start passing on certain information about you to HM Revenue & Customs.
www.moneysavingexpert.com
But I don't know how accurate that is.
Last edited:
This is where the whole intent thing can get tricky. One of the insane things I do is I seek out the cleanest copies of out-of-print CDs of titles I want. The problem is that used CDs not as described a lot, and when buying from certain marketplaces, you have to return the item on your dime in case of a dispute. I've lately been buying Japanese CDs, from Japan -- too expensive to return, and too expensive to buy and have shipped one by one. So I would buy a few copies of the same title and have them shipped together. Then I pick out good copies and list the ones that don't meet my standards for sale. The intent surely isn't to re-sell for profit; the intent is to buy a few good copies for my personal collection and personal use and let go of the bad apples because I have no use for them and recuperate as much as I can (because each CD adds to shipping cost, plus there's handling for the guy in Japan who accepts all CDs from disparate sellers and then sends them all to me in a single package).
And another situation is where I have a less-than-ideal copy from earlier, "upgrade" it by buying a better one, and then once the "upgrade" arrives, sell the old one.
Where would I even begin explaining the intent to HMRC? I know this is not a normal scenario on this planet, but it's not an imaginary one. And the impact of that on my bank account has prompted me to sell off even some of the copies that I bought as "upgrades" (which even further make it look like a flip-job).
Maybe the key ingredient here is that the intent is to buy good copies for personal use, but due to how the used CD thing works, I know that some will be in inferior condition to what I'm lead to believe by the seller, that is not fit for [my] purpose, and I'm prepared to deal with that by selling the bad ones. Sort of like what I see on Guitar forums: people take a chance on guitar sold on eBay and go into it "it's just 1,500 quid -- if it's not good, I'll sell it". Instead, a CD doesn't cost 1,500 quid, so I buy them in greater quantities... So I wonder what HMRC would think about that....
Bank statements showing you haven't just bought them to sold may count as evidence you aren't trading.
oh yeah hmrc is highly automated they will chase you for small sums. also 8k+ cash or transfers into a bank account per year triggers most banks automated investigations according to my friends who worked at hsbc and desuche bank but it does vary.
ebay trading though as your not reporting at all doesn't get the same scrutiny till it hits that 8k limit as you aren't telling hmrc. and if you dont have recipts you do have bank statements they will be looking for you purchasing the goods in bulk.