Hmrc - ebay/airbnb/vinted etc new rules - 1st Jan 2024

Where does something go from CGT to trading?

When it was bought with the intention of trading.

If you bought a painting, hung it in your house for 10 years and then sold it for 10 times the value, it'd be a CGT issue.

If you bought it today and sold it a week later for twice the amount it'd be trading.
 
Did she correctly claim though?


The uniform cleaning discount only applies to certain perofessions
I actually had misunderstood her (checked yesterday to confirm). Whatever happened with work expenses - that may have been a misunderstanding somewhere, and that got sorted (when she disputed it). But what did come out as a result of self-assessment was: one of the employers claimed some kind of tax relief on account of her being part-time. And as a result, they paid less tax, and she had to pay the difference. That may be fair (I don't know how the math works out), but it was 106 quid, and HMRC did take time to mail a bill for such a small amount, so I don't think it's fair to say that they won't hunt people down for peanuts.
 
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Does that mean if I sell a few items below what it costs me to buy could I claim the loss and reduce my CGT in the future.

Depends what and it gets a bit more complicated but potentially yes.


I don't think you can store up negative value 'for the future' though, you'd need to be working it out in the current tax year.
 
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From what I gather you'll be OK this year as it's from 1st Jan 2024.

Now this is the part that I still want to get to the bottom of. Does it mean that HMRC will not get from eBay a report for a full tax year 2023-2024, and instead will only have 4 months of data for the tax year 2023-2024 (from Jan 1 2024 to April 5 2024)? Which would mean that HMRC will not know how much one has sold from April 6 2023 to Dec 31 2024?
 
I think France having been taxing EBay sellers for years, if you turn over a nthousand a year you have to declare it.
So has the UK but it was all on trust and self reporting, so virtually nobody running these "side hustles" did :p

The actual taxes and allowances involved here aren't new, just the fact that the platforms will send your sales data to HMRC so they don't have to trust you to do it yourself.
 
When it was bought with the intention of trading.

If you bought a painting, hung it in your house for 10 years and then sold it for 10 times the value, it'd be a CGT issue.

If you bought it today and sold it a week later for twice the amount it'd be trading.
Now it would be interesting to see where the cutoff is. What if you sold 6 months later? A year later for twice the price? At which point it becomes CG?
Ok, and what if you sold it 2 years later for twice the price -- but you actually listed it a week after buying, but it just took a year or two to get it sold for that amount...?
But then, would HMRC actually know or care about the date something was put up for sale vs getting sold?
What would HMRC's ruling on this be?
 
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Now it would be interesting to see where the cutoff is. What if you sold 6 months later? A year later for twice the price? At which point it becomes CG?
Ok, and what if you sold it 2 years later for twice the price -- but you actually listed it a week after buying, but it just took a year or two to get it sold for that amount...?
But then, would HMRC actually know or care about the date something was put up for sale vs getting sold?
What would HMRC's ruling on this be?
To be honest, my example wasn't great because it's unlikely a single item would be interpreted as trading in itself, so you'd probably still only be worried about CGT anyway.
 
I think France having been taxing EBay sellers for years, if you turn over a nthousand a year you have to declare it.

So has the UK but it was all on trust and self reporting, so virtually nobody running these "side hustles" did :p

The actual taxes and allowances involved here aren't new, just the fact that the platforms will send your sales data to HMRC so they don't have to trust you to do it yourself.

Sorry, I don't get the differential here in regards to trust. bobuk said: "if you turn over a thousand a year, you have to declare it" (emphasis mine). "Have to" != "it's auto-declared for you". Seems to be the same thing as here pre Jan 1, 2024.
 
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Does this apply to the members marketplace as well? Are OC going to dob people in?
MM specifically excludes trading and profiteering (or it did when I last used it). Since they don't actually have any involvement with the payments or transactions then I think MM will be safe for the hadful of people who still have access and use it...

/Salsa
 
Now this is the part that I still want to get to the bottom of. Does it mean that HMRC will not get from eBay a report for a full tax year 2023-2024, and instead will only have 4 months of data for the tax year 2023-2024 (from Jan 1 2024 to April 5 2024)? Which would mean that HMRC will not know how much one has sold from April 6 2023 to Dec 31 2024?
Me too!
 
When it was bought with the intention of trading.

If you bought a painting, hung it in your house for 10 years and then sold it for 10 times the value, it'd be a CGT issue.

If you bought it today and sold it a week later for twice the amount it'd be trading.

This is an issue. Because my selling is a mix. What I sell I hold for a long time. Sometimes years. Wait for it to Appreciate. Then sell It.

With my original buys (years and years ago) the intention wasn't to trade. I just had them and they've shot up in value.

So last couple Of years I've bought a few things to hold for a couple of years then sell.

The few (2 or 3) original items have pushed into and (if I sold) would push over the 1000 trading limit with selling other stuff.
So it's really messy.

For example I've just delisted my old robot vacuum cleaner. It's clearly depreciated and isn't trading. But it adds 100 to the total and pushes ever closer to faff of SA.

What a pain.

There's a mix of a little trading
Where CGT changes to trading
And selling old tat.

If I'm understanding it correctly, if you go over 1000 technically you need to split all this out?
 
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I do expect ebay UK to take a bit of a hit from this actually. 1000 is easy to go over now.
Etsy too.

Just selling that old. Robot vacuum is 1/10 of it. Plus unwanted Christmas stuff. Could start the year 1/5 used.
 
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This is an issue. Because my selling is a mix. What I sell I hold for a long time. Sometimes years. Wait for it to Appreciate. Then sell It.

With my original buys (years and years ago) the intention wasn't to trade. I just had them and they've shot up in value.

So last couple Of years I've bought a few things to hold for a couple of years then sell.

The few (2 or 3) original items have pushed into and (if I sold) would push over the 1000 trading limit with selling other stuff.
So it's really messy.

For example I've just delisted my old robot vacuum cleaner. It's clearly depreciated and isn't trading. But it adds 100 to the total and pushes ever closer to faff of SA.

What a pain.

There's a mix of a little trading
Where CGT changes to trading
And selling old tat.

If I'm understanding it correctly, if you go over 1000 technically you need to split all this out?
Yes, it sounds like you're conducting an activity that HMRC would consider to be trading, so you probably ought to be keeping basic records to identify the things being bought and sold with aim of making some profit and the stuff you're just offloading that are second hand personal possessions.
 
Now it would be interesting to see where the cutoff is. What if you sold 6 months later? A year later for twice the price? At which point it becomes CG?
Ok, and what if you sold it 2 years later for twice the price -- but you actually listed it a week after buying, but it just took a year or two to get it sold for that amount...?
But then, would HMRC actually know or care about the date something was put up for sale vs getting sold?
What would HMRC's ruling on this be?

Typically HMRC decide on an interpretation in regards a tax position (companies will normally get some amount of arguing they can do) and then if you disagree you have two options;
1) prove them wrong, normally the effort is not worth the cost (and or time) or
2) take them to court to ask the court to say HMRC are wrong

Intent is key here. If you genuinely intended to purchase something for your own use, or as an investment then your into CGT, if you clearly bought for resale then is trading.
Patterns are often key, if you buy 1 painting there is no pattern, you saying I bought it but quickly changed my mind will probably fly if there is no trend of you doing that.
If you have a history of buying paintings and listing/selling almost immediately afterwards HMRC are likely to say "yeah right" to your protestations of not intending to flip it.
 
Yes, it sounds like you're conducting an activity that HMRC would consider to be trading, so you probably ought to be keeping basic records to identify the things being bought and sold with aim of making some profit and the stuff you're just offloading that are second hand personal possessions.

Luckily I've only sold about 15 things.
So. It wouldn't be too hard to separate.

If indeed it is confirmed that this is coming in from 1st..ie data is supplied from the and not this tax year it will be fine.
And I'll know to be aware going forward to keep under the 1k.

I believe if I was queried about 2023 to 2024 it would be easy to separate trading from old personal Stuff vs house tat. And I would be well under the 1k. In the trading.


Still unsure with this separation if being over 1k in total. But under in trading means I'd get taxed (at 40pc) on the traded stuff.
 
I do expect ebay UK to take a bit of a hit from this actually. 1000 is easy to go over now.
Etsy too.

Just selling that old. Robot vacuum is 1/10 of it. Plus unwanted Christmas stuff. Could start the year 1/5 used.
The £1000 is your trading allowance.

Selling your robot hoover or unwanted Christmas tat doesn't contribute to the £1000 trading allowance.

Online platforms will be obliged to hand over your information if you make more than 30 sales or €2000 worth of sales.

Nothing necessarily happens if you sell £1000 worth of stuff.

You'll owe tax and should be filing a self assessment if you make £1000+ worth of sales as part of a trading activity.

If you sell more than 30 things/€2000, then eBay will tell HMRC, HMRC might come and ask you to explain (unless they get data that enables them to see themselves you're mostly offloading junk). At which point you'll still only need to do self assessment if the elements that make up your trading activity are over the £1000. If you were at £500 trade and £1500 emptying the attic, then no self assessment tax return would be needed, but you might need to explain to HMRC which items were personal if they asked.
 
This is an issue. Because my selling is a mix. What I sell I hold for a long time. Sometimes years. Wait for it to Appreciate. Then sell It.

With my original buys (years and years ago) the intention wasn't to trade. I just had them and they've shot up in value.

So last couple Of years I've bought a few things to hold for a couple of years then sell.

The few (2 or 3) original items have pushed into and (if I sold) would push over the 1000 trading limit with selling other stuff.
So it's really messy.

For example I've just delisted my old robot vacuum cleaner. It's clearly depreciated and isn't trading. But it adds 100 to the total and pushes ever closer to faff of SA.

What a pain.

There's a mix of a little trading
Where CGT changes to trading
And selling old tat.

If I'm understanding it correctly, if you go over 1000 technically you need to split all this out?
Dude… just be honest and say your running a side hustle..
we have interacted a bit in recent and I’ve seen the posts you made in other threads, obviously I’m not going to grass you in, but in the stock market thread you have clearly said that Lego was part of your investment portfolio and in the side hustle thread not that long ago, I’m sure you said trading Lego was your side hustle.

i’m not saying this to upset you or be a ****.. just not calling a dog a dog doesn’t stop it from being a dog.

i’m going to look into starting my own LTD as I may need it to rent out a property, apparently I can move all profits of an LTD straight into an employee’s (me) pension and claim it as an expense.

it may be useful to be used to sell some of my collectible…
 
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