HMV Finally closing down for good?

[chrcoluk]

They should have moved to out of town shopping parks, that alone would reduce things like rent and be close to customer free parking as well as more public exposure.

Then try and do deals with a supermarket or something so could have parts of a supermarket allocated to them. That is what I would have done.

The only way for the traditional high street to survive is doing something like mike ashley's idea which is a online retail tax which the revenue is then used to subsidise high street rents/rates. But gov's are too scared to tax.

My local city has a big shopping mall which is doing ok, but the rest of the city centre asides from the market is like a ghost town, boarded up shops and so on. Its basically becoming a haven for bars, restaurants etc. at night and discount stores daytime.

Edit, I am replying to a 2016 post on HMV O_o

 

[AndyCr15]

Except it's rather obvious that you plan for the future and not the past

In 1935 they should have planned for the online market 60 years later? Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you say, but to say having a brick and morter shop to sell items from in itself is a bad business model that they should not have tried is a bit silly.

 

[StriderX]

In 1935 they should have planned for the online market 60 years later? Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you say, but to say having a brick and morter shop to sell items from in itself is a bad business model that they should not have tried is a bit silly.

Not then, but when it became obvious and in almost literally everyone's homes... We're now in a period of time where generational gaps are practically non-existent, when Cloud services started to come in Amazon and Microsoft didn't wait for someone else to beat them to it, they diversified because it was a good thing for their business.

Amazingly it's easier for a big company to use it's success as a stepping stone to further success, anyone that doesn't do that is just... sad, frankly those companies have failed the consumer and deserve their fate.

 

[Rifte]

As others have mentioned I am surprised they have lasted as long as they have.

I honestly cannot remember the last time that I purchased any form of physical media/entertainment.

I have 3 huge display cupboards with god knows how many DVDs and blu rays.......gathering dust. I should really take the time and move them on.

 

[AndyCr15]

Not then, but when it became obvious and in almost literally everyone's homes... We're now in a period of time where generational gaps are practically non-existent, when Cloud services started to come in Amazon and Microsoft didn't wait for someone else to beat them to it, they diversified because it was a good thing for their business.

Amazingly it's easier for a big company to use it's success as a stepping stone to further success, anyone that doesn't do that is just... sad, frankly those companies have failed the consumer and deserve their fate.

I don't disagree with any of that. Again, the comment I was replying too was -

if they can't balance sales w/ overheads, that's a pretty bad sales model to go into business w/.

They could... until Amazon squashed their costs and increased their buying power and made it impossible to get close. I'm just saying, it's not a business model issue specifically, it's a 'brick and mortar simply can't compete with online'. Yes, they should perhaps close all their shops and simply move online only for a better chance of survival, but buying goods, paying rent and paying staff and then selling at just enough to make a profit surely isn't actually a bad model?

 

[chaparral]

How long do you guys think it will be till they close down the shops completely ?
end of January ?

 

[MagicBoy]

From what the chap from Debenhams was saying last night in the BBC review of high street shopping in 2018, the problem a lot of established chains have/had is being locked into long leases of the buildings they rent on the high street, so they had to find ways to make money by foot fall.

Most of these businesses have sown the seeds of their own destruction 20 years ago. Most legacy stores were owned property - my local centre had Debenhams, M&S and BHS stores that pre-date the shopping centre being developed around them. Chasing shareholder returns they span the property off to another related entity and leased them back to bolster the balance sheet, and it's bit them in the bum years later after the property went out of direct control and leases went up. The Debenhams property owner here went bump. Eventually the Council bought it cheap and they're now leasing it back to Debenhams for just enough to cover the interest payments on the (cheap local government) loan. BHS eventually went bump after Green asset stripped it, M&S closed the local store last year.

 

[Psycho Ned]

Talk of they should move online is way too late they needed to be heavy in that market 15 years ago, amazon has that market totally cornered now.

I think there is still a market for a music presence on the high street but the massive stores HMV hold and the associated rent with them is the problem. You might survive with smaller shops catering to a more specialist market and offering a more knowledgeable service (maybe with some sort of click and collect for items) but having these cavernous stores and waiting for the once a year rush you might get when Ed Sheeran releases an album is never going to make money now. Of course the leases etc HMV would have make it pretty impossible to move your business that way.

Game is just the video game version of HMV - dead but they don't know it yet.

 

[deusexlumina]

I think they'd have been a bit more successful if they focused on the customer experience a bit more and actually attempted to compete a little on price with the likes of online retailers.

Personally I quite enjoy the idea of looking around a movies section, picking up a case and discovering a new film that I otherwise would not have been exposed to. This was one of the unique selling points of a physical entertainment store, but I don't think HMV really capitalized on it.

I always found the stores to be rather poorly laid out - the aisles are often so thin that you could never really stop for a few minutes to read a blurb without someone needing to get by, and an unrealistic amount of shelf space was always dedicated to the newest releases (I've never understood the point of having a whole section of wall plastered with the same type of DVD/video game case, but I'm sure there's some marketing reason for it!). Sometimes the staff were helpful but other times they were a bit clueless or apathetic. It's such a basic thing but being served by someone who is vaguely happy, makes eye contact and smiles is a big deal in retail and yet hard to find.

Worst in recent years was the pricing. I think everyone is aware that stores like these have additional costs to bear, but often the price of goods is so much higher than the online alternative that it's actually derisory to customers. People are willing to pay a premium for the convenience of walking out with the item there and then, but will not pay an amount that makes then feel like they've been conned in the name of "saving the high street".

Still, it's sad to see them go.

 

[SixTwoSix]

Then try and do deals with a supermarket or something so could have parts of a supermarket allocated to them. That is what I would have done.

The thing is, the supermarkets sell a comparable DVD & CD volume to HMV, while typically only selling the top 25/50 titles. Some of HMV's strength was that a lot of sales were driven by walk ins and impulse browsing buys for back catalogue products, supermarkets aren't interested in this.

 

[Pottsey]

They can be snarky all they want, but Jessops, like most high street stores in my town, brought everything on themselves. they're prices aren't just higher than Amazon etc, they're taking the ****. and it comes back to bite them. if they'd sold that camera at the same price, that customer would have walked out the shop w/ it.
HMV were just as bad, their high street prices for the last thing i looked at, a DVD box set of 24, was over 20% more in the shop than their own online store. and places like this throw a hissy when people stop buying from them, lol.

While I agree on HMV my experience with Jessops is the opposite to what you are talking about. 90% of my shopping is via Amazon but when I went to get a new camera last year I first looked at Amazon then ended up with Jessops as the package options and prices was better then Amazon at the time I saved a few £100 by going with Jessops. Even now many of the cameras have better lens package options at Jessops at often better prices. At the moment Jessops give a larger cashback so things like the EOS 800D Digital SLR with 18-135mm lens is cheaper then Amazon.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

HMV at the Trafford Centre Manchester, consists of an entire wall off T-shirts. Overly priced DVDs and a section with 6 PS4/Xbox Games.

There isn't a big enough market for people that want a cult classic t-shirt and old movie on DVD for £20.

 

[ivrytwr3]

I love Game and HMV, whenever we are in town shopping, my son and i pop into one and browse while the women do their thang.

However, we NEVER buy anything. If my lad sees something he likes, whip out the phone and the item is a usually a fraction of the price these stores are trying to charge (or at the least, always cheaper). Even the Used games are ridiculously overpriced.

 

[Broken Hope]

HMV in Nottingham isn’t giving refunds, only exchanges for other items, so probably not gonna be around for that much longer.

 

[mrochester]

I think they'd have been a bit more successful if they focused on the customer experience a bit more and actually attempted to compete a little on price with the likes of online retailers.

Personally I quite enjoy the idea of looking around a movies section, picking up a case and discovering a new film that I otherwise would not have been exposed to. This was one of the unique selling points of a physical entertainment store, but I don't think HMV really capitalized on it.

I always found the stores to be rather poorly laid out - the aisles are often so thin that you could never really stop for a few minutes to read a blurb without someone needing to get by, and an unrealistic amount of shelf space was always dedicated to the newest releases (I've never understood the point of having a whole section of wall plastered with the same type of DVD/video game case, but I'm sure there's some marketing reason for it!). Sometimes the staff were helpful but other times they were a bit clueless or apathetic. It's such a basic thing but being served by someone who is vaguely happy, makes eye contact and smiles is a big deal in retail and yet hard to find.

Worst in recent years was the pricing. I think everyone is aware that stores like these have additional costs to bear, but often the price of goods is so much higher than the online alternative that it's actually derisory to customers. People are willing to pay a premium for the convenience of walking out with the item there and then, but will not pay an amount that makes then feel like they've been conned in the name of "saving the high street".

Still, it's sad to see them go.

Isn’t the fact they are closing the doors indicative that you weren’t paying enough for the stuff from HMV?

 

[malachi]

I returned a game for refund last week I purchased online. So I better get a refund from them

 

[Pottsey]

Isn’t the fact they are closing the doors indicative that you weren’t paying enough for the stuff from HMV?

Not at all. If they lowered the price they might have made more money and not needed to close the doors. Plus part of the problem wasn't how much we where paying but how much they wasted.

 

[dowie]

Isn’t the fact they are closing the doors indicative that you weren’t paying enough for the stuff from HMV?

Not necessarily, it can be indicative that they weren't running things efficiently enough or weren't attracting enough customers etc..etc..

 

[FoxEye]

Isn’t the fact they are closing the doors indicative that you weren’t paying enough for the stuff from HMV?

Very simply, profit = income - expenditure.

So income alone is not the whole story.

For all we know they could have been spending millions on crack & asian escorts for the CEOs

 

[The_Abyss]

HMV failed to adapt but they never gave themselves the opportunity to diversify - instead they dug their heels in and decided to compete using their same business model. Have they really tried to do anything radically differently, except broaden the product lines that they still sold from their same retail locations and which their competitors were also selling.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I think it HMV had been cute they could have seen some early trends and been able to diversify and grow their revenue without huge investment, long before Play and Amazon had eaten their lunch. HMV are all about music, and have been since their inception. At the turn of century, live music was already beginning to make a strong comeback - the trend was already there - and the consumers for those live events would predominantly have bene the same people coming into their stores. They could have looked at online ticketing, event promotion - all manner of things - and begin to diversify away from their reliance on the High Street. They could have bought existing nascent players in these markets, or started their own - they already had the reception audience even if they didn't yet understand the power of collecting data on them.

Businesses can rarely rip up their entire business plan and bet the house on doing something else. Shareholders are generally too cautious to allow it, but they would work with a Board that sought to grow through diversity. Lots of businesses try it - a few work and many don't but the point is that the core business is still there. A business in HMV's current position has no chance now. The best they can hope for us to sell the equity in the brand.