Hodge doesn't think we should send them back, but their homes shouldn't be that nice

dirtydog · 20 May 2007 at 18:57

AcidHell2 said:
No, I didn't say anything about allegiance, but just by learning it they are more likely to be able to fit in. I also said there should be a point's test and they should have to live here for x number of time with no trouble before being given full rights. I think America has got a good system. It's not perfect but far better than ours (but that's not hard)

I think you are being naive if you think that a test would achieve or prove anything. One can learn to pass any test and to lie on it to say what they know the authorities want to hear.

Glaucus · 20 May 2007 at 19:00

dirtydog said:
I think you are being naive if you think that a test would achieve or prove anything. One can learn to pass any test and to lie on it to say what they know the authorities want to hear.

How can you lie on an English test, either you now it or you don't, it's not something you can just pre-learn the correct answer for.

starscream · 20 May 2007 at 19:01

dirtydog said:
I agree with that much. But it won't alter the fact of social housing being scarce and finite.

Well the number of houses sold under Thatcher's term alone was over 2m. Coupled with the number of people living alone compared with 20 years ago, I believe are far more to blame than the effects of immigration on social housing.

yak.h'cir · 20 May 2007 at 19:09

Matt said:
Surely it's hugely obvious that UK families should get priority over immigrants!?

I don't agree. Sure if its a local person who has been working the majority of their lives and is just experiencing some bad times, or a school leaver just needing a helping start. These people should get priority. But there are plenty of British people who have barely worked a day in their lives, I'd rather see these people live on the streets in order to give people who are newly British a helping start here.

My reasoning is that someone who has spent their lives in free housing (assuming no good reason why they cant work) is obviously never going to be of use. There's more chance that the poor romanian family will come here and get a job and pay back into the system!!!

But of course I don't think it's right that soooo many people can move to a country without any means of supporting themselves. I've move around the world quite a lot but it's never crossed my mind to move to a country without first lining up a job and making sure i've enough cash to rent me a place to live.

yak.h'cir · 20 May 2007 at 19:11

AcidHell2 said:
How can you lie on an English test, either you now it or you don't, it's not something you can just pre-learn the correct answer for.

I believe his comment was in reference to the Americian system. It's often said (no idea if its true) that people are taught to memorize the sequence of answers for the test, so even if they don't speak English and have no idea of what they are writing they can pass the test.

Glaucus · 20 May 2007 at 19:13

yak.h'cir said:
I believe his comment was in reference to the Americian system. It's often said (no idea if its true) that people are taught to memorize the sequence of answers for the test, so even if they don't speak English and have no idea of what they are writing they can pass the test.

ah I see, but you can make tests that are hard to cheat like that by simply not having standard questions and never repeating the same question again.

cleanbluesky · 20 May 2007 at 19:26

starscream said:
Isn't your argument that immigration and integration need to be addressed socially, rather than simply housing?

I just don't think that the medium of housing should be used to address them. Let me state this - I think Hodge is a self-important airbag who will remain unpopular no-matter what she says

And no, I don't think foreigners get treated like natives in the ME, with the possibly exception of Iraq where they both seem to getting shot at and blown up

Then why should it be any different over here?

yak.h'cir · 20 May 2007 at 19:26

AcidHell2 said:
ah I see, but you can make tests that are hard to cheat like that by simply not having standard questions and never repeating the same question again.

Of course!

Would be interesting to see how people born in Britain would score on the test though.

I'm living in Canada at the moment and it's quite interesting to see all the celebrations for Canadian and British holidays and how much they know about theirs and British history. Tomorrow is Victoria Day, a national holiday (with fireworks!!) for the whole country to celebrate the birthday of Queen Victoria.

starscream · 20 May 2007 at 19:47

cleanbluesky said:
Then why should it be any different over here?

Because I would like to think that the UK treats people equally by an established moral standard, not because of the way that citizens are treated abroad. You are very capable of a reasoned debate, and I don't think you really believe that people living abroad are responsible for the conduct of others in their home country or should be treated as such.

cleanbluesky · 20 May 2007 at 19:55

starscream said:
Because I would like to think that the UK treats people equally by an established moral standard, not because of the way that citizens are treated abroad. You are very capable of a reasoned debate, and I don't think you really believe that people living abroad are responsible for the conduct of others in their home country or should be treated as such.

I think that talk of moral standard is more about the ego of the orator rather than practical concerns, there will be no Ultimate Consequence should we adopt a different tactic, nor is there anything enduring about a sense of values - so adopt that which works . Politically we tend to take care of our own, particularly when we are already strained to do so properly

dirtydog · 21 May 2007 at 13:26

No 10 defends Hodge housing call
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6676471.stm

Downing Street has defended industry minister Margaret Hodge's right to call for British residents to have priority over council housing allocations.

Mrs Hodge said allocation should take account of citizenship, residence and national insurance contributions.

A No 10 spokesman said the government recognised it was an issue in some places, adding that the key was to keep boosting the amount of social housing.

But Labour MP Keith Vaz said many would find Mrs Hodge's comments "offensive".

Mrs Hodge, who called for the change in a Sunday newspaper article, said the rule change was needed to "promote tolerance rather than inviting division".

Keith Vaz

is surely the one who is inviting division by his policy of giving housing to immigrants in preference to natives, no? I find Keith Vaz offensive.

M0t0r0la · 21 May 2007 at 15:19

The person with the greatest need should get priority irrespective of where their from :confused:

Surely that’s obvious??

Van_Dammesque · 21 May 2007 at 15:27

M0t0r0la said:
The person with the greatest need should get priority irrespective of where their from
Surely that’s obvious??

So the UK social housing should be given priority to africans for example - as long as they can put one foot onto our soil?!

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Why do we bother with borders at all nowadays? Why bother with titles like the UK or England anymore? I'm sick of this country and its ability to neglect its own and to accomdate foreigners, we should all stop paying tax and make the immigrants' countries pay for themselves. Hell why not call the this a free-for-all country instead of a free country. I'm sick, real sick. I'm sick that this sort thing is even considered, UK >> immgrants in terms of prioirty every single day of the week!

Due to the flood of immigrants and bogus asylum seekers AND their is no vetting procedure then the foreigners WILL ALWAYS be the priority!

Woof woof, <---- hear that? That is england going to the dogs. No wonder Scotland want independence, hell I want England to have independce from this treachorous government :rolleyes:

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END OF RANT

Van_Dammesque · 21 May 2007 at 15:30

dirtydog said:
Keith Vaz is surely the one who is inviting division by his policy of giving housing to immigrants in preference to natives, no? I find Keith Vaz offensive.

"Mr Vaz, chairman of Labour's ethnic minority taskforce"

I'm sorry but an ethnic minority in control of "minority" issues will always for me at least be biased - he is a tit.

ANYWAY WHAT THE HELL IS A ETHNIC MINORITY TASKFORCE?!!!?!?!?!?

cleanbluesky · 21 May 2007 at 15:30

Van_Dammesque said:
ANYWAY WHAT THE HELL IS A ETHNIC MINORITY TASKFORCE?!!!?!?!?!?

Black ops?

cleanbluesky · 21 May 2007 at 15:31

dirtydog said:
Keith Vaz is surely the one who is inviting division by his policy of giving housing to immigrants in preference to natives, no? I find Keith Vaz offensive.

Keith Vaz is looking out for his own

platypus · 21 May 2007 at 15:34

AcidHell2 said:
grammar Nazi, seeing as I passed GCSE English, I would surmise I would pass. Also you got to remember this is a forum and therefore all though I try to correct mistakes before hitting the submit button, I'm not going to go through my post in great detail.

Well firstly GCSE English is ridiculously easy, and secondly, would you penalise the native UK people who can't pass GCSE English? (I would but that's a different matter

)

Some of my family settled here during World War II, my grandfather on my mothers side was a Canadian fighter pilot. I wonder if I could get benefits to help towards the £500k mortgage my girlfriend and I are looking at, because I really need it. But then it would obviously offend many people if I got some help for council housing, let alone anything more!

dirtydog · 21 May 2007 at 15:35

He does seem to be showing his true colours by putting British people's needs behind those of foreigners. Shameful for a government minister to behave in such a way. (or any MP)

M0t0r0la · 21 May 2007 at 15:39

Van_Dammesque said:
So the UK social housing should be given priority to africans for example - as long as they can put one foot onto our soil?!

If the only other option is being somehwhere thats detrimental to their welfare then absolutley!

chimaera · 21 May 2007 at 15:42

It all depends on circumstances as far as i'm concerned, i'm not going to discriminate either way.

For example why should a 16yr old girl from barking who gets pregnant so she can get a free house and benefits get treated better than a proper asylum seeker who is leaving somewhere like darfur to find a better home for his family and work ten times harder than the little **** and her offspring.

You can't judge these things on natives vs non-natives thats just absurd.

I'll be the first to have a go at this countries lax immigration system but laws that promote sweeping cultural generalisations are not the answer at all.