holy **** - AMD hury up! (KB prices)

RavenXXX2 · 6 Jan 2017 at 11:11

You can with the latest bios update.

Rroff · 6 Jan 2017 at 11:15

Uriel said:
One thing I didn't realise is that since 22-28 nm ish, further shrinkage hasn't brought further cost savings for manufacturing. It's kind of been flatlining since then, at least until the processes are refined. I can't see it getting much better with 10, 7, 5 nm etc.

We've hit a bit of an economic limit as well as a thermal and clock speed limits.

So all we've got to look forward to for a while (with silicon based CPUs) is improved IPC and power efficiency for the money unless there are major architectural changes. Intel clearly have some headroom for higher clocks. I think it's going to be like the P4 days for a while where they just release CPUs with a clock speed bump and maybe extra cache and cores to remain competitive with, or ahead of AMD.

A potential change on the horizon is x86 compatible ARM chips. They're only forecast for portable devices at the moment but would be interesting to see another option in desktop space eventially. I'm not expecting much of a performance boost but you never know.

IIRC developing a chip for 14-16nm type nodes is twice as expensive as 28nm and 10nm is going to increase 40-45% again but production cost should fall back down again.

Nutella33 · 6 Jan 2017 at 11:37

Uriel said:
One thing I didn't realise is that since 22-28 nm ish, further shrinkage hasn't brought further cost savings for manufacturing. It's kind of been flatlining since then, at least until the processes are refined. I can't see it getting much better with 10, 7, 5 nm etc.

We've hit a bit of an economic limit as well as a thermal and clock speed limits.

Is it that or are intel are just using their chips thermal capacity to shove larger and largely useless IGPU's into, which also cost more to produce? As these grow, the advances of shrinking processes are dissipated as the IGPU's get larger and larger and costing more to R+D and produce/manufacturer.

Look at the Sandy and Ivybridge -E's, can clock higher with more cores on the same process as the None -E family..... and don't have a IGPU.

You mention since around 22/28nm its flatlined but thats when the IGPU started either being introduced or taking more and more die space on existing lines. Not only have we shrunk by a third the process but we've developed 3D gates and all sorts of other tricks since then.
With kabylake you've seen the clocks creep up a bit but that's because they have stuck to a more mature 14nm for the 3rd generation due to their abandonment of "tick tock".

Also look at AMD with ryzen from what we know, we are looking at a new 14nm process so around broadwell for an intel release comparison. But due to tech advances (finfet) and not including a IGPU we are looking down the barrel of twice as many cores as broadwell at a 1/1.5Ghz higher freq.

Legend · 6 Jan 2017 at 11:40

beany_bot said:
I thought you could use Kaby in a Z170 board? If not thats crazy.

You can, but really, is there a more pointless exercise? The chips have the same IPC and in real world terms you won't see a difference, plus with a Z170 board you're obviously not getting any of the additional features that the platform brings. Yes it gets you a system at a slightly cheaper price, but if money is a concern you're better off going with a cheaper 6700k/6600k, which if you shop around can save you a bit, then put the extra in to a better GPU, RAM or SSD.

Harlequin · 6 Jan 2017 at 11:42

so yet again - a new intel chip wanting a new motherboard? and fans are loving this gravy train?

Martini1991 · 6 Jan 2017 at 11:50

Harlequin said:
so yet again - a new intel chip wanting a new motherboard? and fans are loving this gravy train?

Kaby lake has had a poor reception from forum users etc.
Why do you come out with such crap about people loving this?

ubersonic · 6 Jan 2017 at 12:08

Martini1991 said:
Kaby lake has had a poor reception from forum users etc.
Why do you come out with such crap about people loving this?

The fact he said "fans" were loving it means it wasn't aimed at people who poorly received it. Having said that the statement is a bit superfluous really as fanboys will love anything they are a fan of.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 6 Jan 2017 at 12:28

At least the Pentium G4560 looks great for the money and is only £32 to £33 per core with HT!

Martini1991 · 6 Jan 2017 at 12:35

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
At least the Pentium G4560 looks great for the money and is only £32 to £33 per core with HT!

Just imagine how good it would have been a few years ago

Harlequin · 6 Jan 2017 at 12:37

Martini1991 said:
Just imagine how good it would have been a few years ago

not that much difference? you have to go back 10 years for a large swing in exchange rate ; 5 years ago it was £1 = $1.6

ubersonic · 6 Jan 2017 at 12:41

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
At least the Pentium G4560 looks great for the money

In fairness that's not bad considering the comparable last gen i3 was over £100.

Am I right in saying Zen isn't going to be coming in 2c4t though? Haven't been paying attention to the lower models but I thought 4c8t was the entry one?

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
and is only £32 to £33 per core with HT!

Awesome considering the Pentium 4 HT was like £200+ per core ^^

Harlequin · 6 Jan 2017 at 12:42

they seem to have an SR3 model as the base (likely 4/8)

Nutella33 · 6 Jan 2017 at 12:49

Raven Ridge will cover that end surely?

Martini1991 · 6 Jan 2017 at 12:51

Harlequin said:
not that much difference? you have to go back 10 years for a large swing in exchange rate ; 5 years ago it was £1 = $1.6

Inflation and it's currently 1.23 or something.

Before Sunderland voted we were headed at 1.5.

The dollar pricing of the tiers hasn't changed, the unlocked i3 K is overpriced because it's came into a new price point albeit.

Chris. · 6 Jan 2017 at 12:59

Indeed. The amount of times I keep refreshing my news feed is unbearable.

Although to be fair I'll then be waiting for VEGA as well so I'll be no more satisfied.

I've completely skipped a generation of AMD and not missed a great deal so I'm hoping for some decent gains

Uriel · 6 Jan 2017 at 13:01

Nutella33 said:
Raven Ridge will cover that end surely?

I'd fogotten about Raven Ridge. Read some rumours of Zen cores (don't know how many) and PS4 grade graphis on an APU. That could fill the mid range nicely.

beany_bot · 6 Jan 2017 at 13:07

Harlequin said:
not that much difference? you have to go back 10 years for a large swing in exchange rate ; 5 years ago it was £1 = $1.6

Offtopic but I remember going to Florida as a kid and it was $2 to £1. Was amazing. Everything was "half price".

Nutella33 · 6 Jan 2017 at 13:17

Uriel said:
I'd fogotten about Raven Ridge. Read some rumours of Zen cores (don't know how many) and PS4 grade graphis on an APU. That could fill the mid range nicely.

Yeah last slides I've seen show a 2 and 4c APU family with a 470 equivalent (either of the 470 or a cut down vega) gpu.

Scramz · 6 Jan 2017 at 13:21

Sometimes the difference between US and UK prices for higher end gear would pay for a return flight to the US.

DragonQ · 6 Jan 2017 at 13:27

ubersonic said:
In fairness that's not bad considering the comparable last gen i3 was over £100.

Am I right in saying Zen isn't going to be coming in 2c4t though? Haven't been paying attention to the lower models but I thought 4c8t was the entry one?

Awesome considering the Pentium 4 HT was like £200+ per core ^^

Yes, 4 cores is the minimum for Ryzen and their Zen "packages" are 4 cores each (meaning the 8 core is two "packages" together). The only way we'd see 2-3 core Ryzen is if they have significant yield issues.

However, Raven Ridge APUs will likely come in dual and maybe even triple core variants.