Hot Hatchbacks..

[Housey]

Is there a more rounded, fun, quick type of car available today than a hot hatchback?

I have one, it could be argued not a very good one (Polo GTI) but each time I get out of it I have smile on my face having usually smashed the backside out of it. Now it is fair to say that really isn't the right approach on our roads today and of course you are right, but put that to one side for a moment as we can assume that now and again all of use feel the need to have a little fun when the conditions allow. My point is at that moment I am unsure any other type of car provides a better platform for such fun.

Let's look at the typical ingredients...

- Small and lightish
- Circa 200bhp or more through front wheels
- Good steering, good brakes and a good front end
- Adjustable with throttle and brakes (left foot)
- Great grip and surefooted nature
- Good power delivery and torque

The Polo does most of this OK, as I say it's not the best by any means and to be critical it lacks steering feel, has awful traction in the wet (wheels spins in first 3 gears), lacks a trick diff and doesn't really sound anything at all, but the core ingredients are all there to a lesser or greater extent. It has superb brakes, a solid front end that goes where you point it (when off heavy power) and good balance and overall grip.

I've had/have some epic cars and been lucky enough to drive several more over the years, but if I look at todays roads and conditions I struggle to find anything that provides the bang for buck experience of a good hot hatchback or provides anymore pleasure in the long term. Sure getting into my a V10 R8 is one hell of an event and in terms of pace leagues ahead of 99% of the other cars on the road and all hot hatchbacks. But if outright pace is a measure on the road you are being an idiot and I am too old and risk adverse these days and a hot hatchback provides 90% of the fun at much less pace in most cases.

The MX5 is also great but you know what, put aside a sublime chassis, brakes, steering, RWD handling and adjustability and you do come back to the fact it's engine lets it down badly and it does really need more horses and a better set up and it lacks the 4 seat, hatch back practicality that make an all round car. I chose the Polo GTI as first it was dirt cheap and was to be used as a station car, but also because I didn't want to be another 3/A4/C class bore plodding up a motorway to a meeting on the occasion I needed to do that. The Polo is totally anonymous and I frankly like that as a bright red V10 R8 is the opposite. But now having just taken a trip to Stoke Audi to order some bits for said R8 in the Polo, I have come back and said to the wife "that thing is bloody great fun" and that's what prompted this thread.

So, discuss, views, comments, objections, alternative opinions for my point?

 

[Housey]

I agree there are more dynamic, more pure and cars that require more skill to get the most from, but my point was predicated on the point that a hot hatch can do all the other stuff well, carry people, put stuff in the boot, do a motorway cruise in comfort etc. It's that all around ability that can in an instant become a smiles per hour machine on the right road at sane pace that makes them perfect all round car for a petrolhead. No hot hatch will require the skill or carry the pace of a Caterham for example, but that's sort of missing the point.

 

[Housey]

My wife's 2nd and 3rd cars were a 106 XSI and 106 GTI, both bought new. They were light, rapid and had a short wheelbase, so were easy to move around with lift off oversteer and had great steering and feedback It was when Peugeot were still able to make hot hatchbacks at the top of their game and I struggle to think of cars that put a bigger smile on my face for such little outlay. I think we sold the XSI within 10p of what we paid for it too!

 

[Housey]

One thing the new ones have that the older ones don't is systems to look after you. I still recall one of the biggest near misses I had was in my wife's 106 XSI heading back to our B&B on the Friday night of the Goodwood Festival of Speed back in the day. Some chap in a Rover 200 GTI wanted to have some fun, so of course I obliged. I was getting the better of him and I came to a bend over a brow of a hill which I came into far too quickly and naively lifted off. Mistake, the thing snapped sideways and I got into a lurid tank slapper which luckily I managed to hold but mostly through luck. They really had the ability to throw you into a hedge in those days as it had no systems bar ABS. My wife actually spun it twice on islands due to lifting off!

Epic!

 

[Housey]

It's all well and good being the fastest around the Nurburgring, but in the real world, with real world tasks hot hatches are king. Saying that though, a small roadster would still be my ideal car. I think that the hypercar model is ridiculous for our roads, and even some of the latest mega hatches are getting ludicrously fast.

Hypercars are the emperors new clothes for the very very well healed. I know a few owners of 918's and P1's and typically they are 1 of a few epic cars they own. Only 10 minutes back I made a post elsewhere that said much the same, I just don't get turned on by modern hyper cars and even though I can see how epic they are there are many cars that would adorn a wallpaper on my computer before such a car. Age thing I think.

Loved my 106 GTi back in the day, and even the 1.1 I had before it

Always wanted a mint 205 GTi and had the opportunity a couple years ago (was a mint garage find at a ridiculously low price)... never meet your idols! Sold after a month

Interesting, what did you realise was actually a bit **** about the 205?

 

[Housey]

Isn't this what coupes are for? If you don't want to go down to 2 seats then look at things like RX8, Lotus Evora, Audi TT, GT86 etc.

Missing the point. None of these cars are all round cars with the same flexibility as a hot hatch and I would argue bar the Lotus probably not as much fun either.

 

[Housey]

How can you take these cars seriously when they lack carpeted door bins?

This is not for you this thread, you're not welcome here as you are a freak of nature. You had a briefcase at school when everyone had an adidas bag and you don't have any McDonalds left overs anywhere in your car or any dust either. I bet you read Wide Range Readers Green books when we all read Blue ones too!

You're spesh.

Probably nothing, just me being an old git

It was fully stock bar a CD radio. It was horribly uncomfortable to drive for more than an hour, lacking the stopping power I felt needed (spent a fortune modding the 106), felt way too twitchy at pace... the potential for violent death at every turn... all the things that make hot hatches fun

It was fine, I just became aware of my mortality and desire for comfort!

Ah yes, they were made from paper that much is true! I had a summer job during school/college in the local Peugeot dealers so used to get to work on them (God help the poor owners!) and they were so paper thin it was scary. However that twitchiness was part of their appeal, they are so agile but need real skill (read knowing know better) to get them going well and each and every bend could dead you dead, to my comment above about my 106 experience. The brakes would be awful today too, no ABS either I suspect and fade tastic. We have all been spoilt, but back then I guess it's all we knew so we were oblivious and I know at 19 I was fearless too!

 

[Housey]

I adored my 2x 205 GTi's (One had a 405 Mi16 conversion) and really adored my 306 GTI-6.

The 306 GTI was fantastic!

 

[Housey]

They would snap oversteer without much provocation that much is true.

 

[Housey]

Add cams, a high flow exhaust manifold, ITBs, and a tune to suit, some more bits from Ohlins/Eibach and some chassis bracing, and you have something very good IMO, although I am very biased!

Still completely impractical mind

Oh I get that, no hot hatch can match the pureness of a RWD 2 seater with a proper set up and engine mods and the MX5 can be made very special. As I said it's not about that though, it's the sheer off the shelf all roundness married to epic laughs that make the hot hatch such an intoxicating thing. Back in the day it was the Golf GTI that made everyone laugh at the MG Roadster lest we forget.

 

[Housey]

We all look back fondly on hot hatches of old... I lost 2 friends to them, one in a Nova and one in a Saxo, to crashes that you'd probably walk away from in a Polo GTi today!

That said I'd love a Super 7 for track days and will probably save that for the mid life crisis

My mid life crisis was a GT3

Yep. Really was.
As much as I loved my 205's and they were sorted, rebuilt rear beams, upgraded brakes etc. The GTI-6 was more refined, interior was a step up, passive rear steer was superb, more stable at 3 figure speeds, climate control (which worked) was a god send.

It handled like it was on rails and 3rd gear was the best. Sounded awesome out the box too. Sadly Peugeot seem to lose their way after that. A real shame.

Always wanted a T16 and an Escort Cosworth in my garage!!

They also had great steering too, lovely weighting

 

[Housey]

Did you own one too?

I remember I was at the garage with my 205 having something done, some guy pulled in with his 306 Rallye and we got talking, 4 days later I was cleaning my 3 year old 1999 T reg China blue (Phase 3) GTi!

Good times, really was the drive of your life!

My father had one as his run about and I drove it often!

As soon as he was old enough he swapped that briefcase for a bmw and...Fox was born.

We love him really. Need someone to dig into the ribs of idiots. He does that better than most.

 

[Housey]

The new 208 GTI by Peugeot sport is a fantastic little thing.

I bet it weights 54 tonnes though doesn't it?

 

[Housey]

Pug always felt much more alive. It's agility is what made it better in my view than a Golf.

 

[Housey]

All of those would be another league of fun compared to a hot hatch. Unless a hot hatch is highly focused on handling and not just straight line speed they aren't fun. The Lotus won't be that practical and the rear seats in the TT not great for adults but the rest are practical. Hot hatches are boring once you move on.

Oh really....

TT is crap.
GT86 underpower, if lovely to drive.
RX8 is ok, but engine is a mixed taste
Evora is epic

I hope one day I can move on from a Polo GTI, I live in hope.

Same as my old mk2 GTI 16v although different wheels. Same colour too... Atlas grey?

Ditto!

 

[Housey]

There are way more cars. You can't beat a hot hatch for the price but eventually you get bored of hot hatches. I've had my fair share and the only one that was fun was the 205 gti. Lacking power but with it being light and good handling it was very entertaining. Once I got through the turbo cars like the Focus I got bored. It pulled like a train but that gets boring. The op was asking about what was more fun to drive that wasn't an impractical 2 seat car. There are a lot of cars a lot more exciting than any modern hot hatch and you can still maintain practicality like decent sized rear seats and boot.

Name one, you've not done so yet.

 

[Housey]

Yes the R8 but the Polo GTi was the one focused on.

No not really, it was used as an example of a hot hatch, no a particularly a good one, but one that put a smile on my face in the context of being a competent all rounder. I am well aware there are better road cars, faster road cars, sharper road cars but that wasn't the point.

There are few more rapid road cars in most circumstances, that can happily carry 4-5 adults, a boot full of stuff, a coffee in 4 cup holders and take you on a 200 mile journey where you get out not that tired and can then take it for a blast across a welsh hillside where it will put a smile on your face better than most other 15K-20K cars. That was my point.

 

[Housey]

I love hot hatches for all the points mentioned although I dislike how manufacturers have had to move away from larger, revvy engines.

I looked at a few cars before buying my 200 Cup but most were only attractive because of their power which becomes boring fast. I love kicking the arse out of my Clio occasionally as you feel you can actually get close to the cars limits which is where they become fun.

I preferred this as a road car to the uber Megane they all rave about. I drove both back to back and felt the Clio was more road suited. The Megane would hand it its backside around the Ring, but the Clio had better damping and better traction and made a better road car in most circumstances on British roads I felt.

 

[Housey]

I think you read the OP wrong tbh.

He has done what I am epic at. Read a bit of it, got it wrong and then posted up his thoughts completely missing the mark. I'm ace at that too.

 

[Housey]

What do we suggest hot hatch wise that won't be boring to an R8 owner?

Any of them, to my point. I don't find the Polo boring, it makes me smile and it's not a good one. That is what the entire thread is predicated on, hot hatches are good and I had forgotten how good having not really had one for years and how in most peoples hands, on most roads with most personal circumstances there are few, if any, better types of car for an enthusiastic driver.