House prices rose 7.3% this year, average now almost £250k

[Vanilla]

Well then you would have to get creative and look to leverage these mega rental companies to to pay a Housing Duty or fee, you could disguise it in a green research and development way. Force them to get the properties up to a crazy high efficiency value and other "rental Rights". Build 10% rental properties per year. Or other methods of taxing-nottaxing.

So to summarise the last few years

- Mortgage interest offset has disappeared
- Empty houses now have to pay council tax and in some cases 300% tax.
- Landlords have to complete more background checks and more certification (many which were only for HMO's are now for all properties)
- Many boroughs have lowered their HMO status to be two households and three people. I.e if you have a 2 bed flat with a couple and their friend it's now a HMO, whereas before this used to be reserved for huge houses with 8+ people

All of this has been done.....it's forcing rent up. By all means push for affordable housing but know when something is counter productive.

 

[krooton]

I know someone who manages over 30 residential properties and over 10 commercial properties themselves.

Again clueless.

I clearly said "nigh on impossible", your example doesn't invalidate my idea or make me clueless, unless they literally manage all 40 properties totally on their own?

No doubt they have set up a company to do so? Fine, most landlord don't do this, or the lettings industry wouldn't be as bloated as it is.

 

[stuman]

So to summarise the last few years

- Mortgage interest offset has disappeared
- Empty houses now have to pay council tax and in some cases 300% tax.
- Landlords have to complete more background checks and more certification (many which were only for HMO's are now for all properties)
- Many boroughs have lowered their HMO status to be two households and three people. I.e if you have a 2 bed flat with a couple and their friend it's now a HMO, whereas before this used to be reserved for huge houses with 8+ people

All of this has been done.....it's forcing rent up. By all means push for affordable housing but know when something is counter productive.

Those things improve the quality of living and are in no way a bad thing.

The landlords up the rent, renters cant afford and campaign the government to help them. Have schemes to help first time buyers. Build better homes faster and use the tax generated from these landlord taxes to fund it.

 

[Scam]

All of this has been done.....it's forcing rent up.

And that is the crux of the problem with the BTL market! It is so skewed that landlords still have all the power over potential FTBs. They are buying up all the new properties, they are keeping rent high because there are no affordable starter homes.. the list goes on and on. That's why more action needs to be taken.

Meanwhile the government will trot out the line of "we're going to build XX new houses this year" - conveniently ignoring that (a) they're unaffordable for FTBs and (b) they go straight into the hands of landlords thus doing absolutely nothing to help the situation. I've walked into new-build showrooms, asked in all sincerity to be shown around the show house (flat), and got into arguments with the salespeople because they won't answer my questions on how much it has been marketed abroad, how many have been bought off-plan, how many will be owner-occupied, or how many have been bought to rent out. The answer of course, is most of them are bought off-plan to rent out. If not that, then to hedge on the prices rising so quickly they can even sell them again before they're finished to make a profit, or just sell them once they're completed to do the same. It's disgusting.

 

[Vanilla]

Those things improve the quality of living and are in no way a bad thing.

The landlords up the rent, renters cant afford and campaign the government to help them. Have schemes to help first time buyers. Build better homes faster and use the tax generated from these landlord taxes to fund it.

How does increasing tax improve the quality of living? How does a PAT certification on a fridge improve the quality of living? How does having a HMO license improve the quality of living?

These things drive money to the council, squeeze the landlord squeeze the renters.

 

[Vanilla]

And that is the crux of the problem with the BTL market! It is so skewed that landlords still have all the power over potential FTBs. They are buying up all the new properties, they are keeping rent high because there are no affordable starter homes.. the list goes on and on. That's why more action needs to be taken.

Meanwhile the government will trot out the line of "we're going to build XX new houses this year" - conveniently ignoring that (a) they're unaffordable for FTBs and (b) they go straight into the hands of landlords thus doing absolutely nothing to help the situation. I've walked into new-build showrooms, asked in all sincerity to be shown around the show house (flat), and got into arguments with the salespeople because they won't answer my questions on how much it has been marketed abroad, how many have been bought off-plan, how many will be owner-occupied, or how many have been bought to rent out. The answer of course, is most of them are bought off-plan to rent out. If not that, then to hedge on the prices rising so quickly they can even sell them again before they're finished to make a profit, or just sell them once they're completed to do the same. It's disgusting.

All of this action has been taken. What have you seen out of it? Where are the new houses on the back of this HUGE influx of tax?

- Mortgage interest offset has disappeared
- Empty houses now have to pay council tax and in some cases 300% tax.
- Landlords have to complete more background checks and more certification (many which were only for HMO's are now for all properties)
- Many boroughs have lowered their HMO status to be two households and three people. I.e if you have a 2 bed flat with a couple and their friend it's now a HMO, whereas before this used to be reserved for huge houses with 8+ people

 

[Bald-Eagle22]

There was a great meme near the beginning of 2020 lockdown where it was saying something along the lines "Look at all these people buying up the hand sanitiser and PPE and charging a fortune for it, now imagine that was housing. Oh wait."

Perhaps if Asda was buying up all of the food and denying others access to it by inflating prices out of reach of most normal people... Try again..

It is in question. I'm questioning why you are so quick to call people entitled, when you are so blind to the fact that are you acting supremely entitled by making money out of other people's basic human right. And at the same time being part of the biggest social-economic problem in the world today.

Read it again , you were questioning my £60,000 deposit — like I said it didn’t come from the housing sector .

You obviously have very unfounded views on how the housing market should be but it’s clear to see you know nothing about it . I’ll keep buying up cheap BTL as and when I can , thankfully I dint take advice from Enitled people like you. Good luck with your retirement planning ( all I’m doing here ) , I think your going to need it .

 

[Bald-Eagle22]

All of this action has been taken. What have you seen out of it? Where are the new houses on the back of this HUGE influx of tax?

- Mortgage interest offset has disappeared
- Empty houses now have to pay council tax and in some cases 300% tax.
- Landlords have to complete more background checks and more certification (many which were only for HMO's are now for all properties)
- Many boroughs have lowered their HMO status to be two households and three people. I.e if you have a 2 bed flat with a couple and their friend it's now a HMO, whereas before this used to be reserved for huge houses with 8+ people

And this is what the uneducated don’t get unfortunately.

 

[stuman]

How does increasing tax improve the quality of living? How does a PAT certification on a fridge improve the quality of living? How does having a HMO license improve the quality of living?

These things drive money to the council, squeeze the landlord squeeze the renters.

PAT testing so you don't get killed by a crappy appliance that hasn't been properly maintained. Would you also scrap boiler testing? Hell, building reg's in general?

Have you lived in a HMO? the less of these the better and putting up red tape will dissuade some. Not only that but can be used to shut illegal HMO's run by trafficker's. If you don't protect that part of the market exploitation runs riot. The reason HMO's exist in the first place is because of this racket!

Increasing tax, whilst not directly linked would enable the government to fund schemes to get FTB's into homes.

 

[Semple]

This would only work with a very rigid set of social boundaries that would be enforced so that you don't end up with mega-renta-corp creating their own racket of terrible housing lawyered up to the nines to wriggle out of providing good basic housing.

Yep no disagreement there. There should be an easy way for renters to report to the council if the property is being neglected, and we're not talking about a leaky tap. But if the property is developing serious damp issues, or landlord is refusing to fix the boiler to provide hot water, then a quick complaint to the council followed by a swift visit for verification. The council should then be given powers to force the landlord into rectifying issues, whilst at the same time having to pay to put the tenant up in a B&B or something.

All of this has been done.....it's forcing rent up.

Herein lies the problem though, adding more costs to the landlord means they just pass them down to the tenant. The government should have put in place some form of rent controls so that landlords can't pass on their costs.

 

[stuman]

And this is what the uneducated don’t get unfortunately.

This is how you are justifying it to yourself. Did your education teach you to be a heartless money grabber as it certainly doesn't seem it was in anything constructive to society.

 

[Kenai]

Herein lies the problem though, adding more costs to the landlord means they just pass them down to the tenant. The government should have put in place some form of rent controls so that landlords can't pass on their costs.

I'd say this is more a symptom than 'the problem' - in reality the root of the problem is that a booming BTL market suits the government down to the ground - it's a lovely tax stream for them, reliable and predictable and ever increasing, because the property value is ever increasing and the rents are ever increasing. It's a nice feedback loop as far as they're concerned, whilst BTLers are causing house prices to keep soaring as they throw their cash around, everything else goes up with it.

It's in their interest to keep inflating this bubble as much as they can without causing it to burst - it'll be a cold day in hell before you see our Government implement any genuine restriction on BTL because it's not in their interest to do it.

 

[Vanilla]

PAT testing so you don't get killed by a crappy appliance that hasn't been properly maintained. Would you also scrap boiler testing? Hell, building reg's in general?

Have you lived in a HMO? the less of these the better and putting up red tape will dissuade some. Not only that but can be used to shut illegal HMO's run by trafficker's. If you don't protect that part of the market exploitation runs riot. The reason HMO's exist in the first place is because of this racket!

Increasing tax, whilst not directly linked would enable the government to fund schemes to get FTB's into homes.

That improves your safety, not QOL. Nothing is cheaper, nothing is better, it's a precaution.

I've lived in many HMOs in my life and loved it. Big groups of friends, sometimes strangers, great houses, fun nights. They are not all squats with dripping pipes and bunk beds in every room and are NEEDED. Ever wanted to move in and get a place with a group of friends? That's a HMO.

Again, they already have increased tax from council tax, HMO licenses and now no interest offset. This has been going on for years? What have you seen for your higher tax so far? Any houses?

 

[Vanilla]

I'd say this is more a symptom than 'the problem' - in reality the root of the problem is that a booming BTL market suits the government down to the ground - it's a lovely tax stream for them, reliable and predictable and ever increasing, because the property value is ever increasing and the rents are ever increasing. It's a nice feedback loop as far as they're concerned, whilst BTLers are causing house prices to keep soaring as they throw their cash around, everything else goes up with it.

It's in their interest to keep inflating this bubble as much as they can without causing it to burst - it'll be a cold day in hell before you see our Government implement any genuine restriction on BTL because it's not in their interest to do it.

Exactly.

AND they now benefit more than ever with landlords being unable to claim interest relief. Yet people say 'make tax higher on rent'.

If you have not seen an improvement after all this, and there are still BTL landlords out there....what on earth do you think you have coming? There are literally ZERO tax benefits from a BTL and nothing has changed. 'TAX MOAR!!!' Yes...because that has given such stellar results so far.

 

[Simon]

This is never going to end in agreement is it, one view could be:

BTL landlords pay more tax to the government that someone owning it. BTL landlords therefor contribute to the greater society and pay for housing benefits for the poor. Just call me Mr nightingale

/tongue in cheek

Its quite easy to describe Utopia, but the result of now is natural human behaviour. Ive already shown the government have had a massive go at BTL landlords but it hasn't changed anything significantly. We have a population growing faster than houses. Plus the house price rises fuels the economy when people remortage and buy new things. They like it secretly especially as they making so much of small BTL landlords

With the same logic people with investments should also sell them, with less shareholders and dividends to pay, companies can reduce prices and benefit other people. How dare people profit from others.

 

[Simon]

The government should ideally go on a mass social housing building spree, literally hundreds of thousands of houses for rent all over the country.
Unfortunately as a lot of MP's are probably landlords themselves it will never happen. Nobody needs more than one house, which is their home.

And in other countries having a house and a city flat is normal.

 

[Vanilla]

How dare people profit from others.

..and anyone who is not self-employed literally is a tool for profit being paid for by a company.

 

[stuman]

That improves your safety, not QOL. Nothing is cheaper, nothing is better, it's a precaution.

I've lived in many HMOs in my life and loved it. Big groups of friends, sometimes strangers, great houses, fun nights. They are not all squats with dripping pipes and bunk beds in every room and are NEEDED. Ever wanted to move in and get a place with a group of friends? That's a HMO.

Again, they already have increased tax from council tax, HMO licenses and now no interest offset. This has been going on for years? What have you seen for your higher tax so far? Any houses?

I would say not being electrocuted is a better quality of life, than, well, being electrocuted, or gassed or inside a collapsing building.

I have been through the same situation. It was carnage and not a good healthy lifestyle it also loses its charm after a short time. It also wasn't through choice, more of a necessity to not live with the parents. If there was a way I could have had a 1 bed on my own, I would have.

They are only NEEDED because its very difficult on living wage to rent a place on your own and have an ok lifestyle.

The tax money has gone into schemes like help to buy ISA and Help to buy equity schemes (and probably some shady contracts to mates from Eton). Oh, and Brexit and COVID measures. The tax gets spent and we could really do with some more, especially from people who could afford to pay some more.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I clearly said "nigh on impossible", your example doesn't invalidate my idea or make me clueless, unless they literally manage all 40 properties totally on their own?

No doubt they have set up a company to do so? Fine, most landlord don't do this, or the lettings industry wouldn't be as bloated as it is.

They manage them on their own yes.

Commercial properties take care of themselves. You don't need to do anything once they are let out. Letting them out is the hard part with high streets being eroded.

Residential is what takes up most of their time and constant phone calls and issues.

It's basically a full time job for him however he can go spells of hours or maybe days of nothing.

He does everything on a schedule like he will do all the gas certificates in one go every few months. Then he might be quiet for the rest of the week bar a couple of minor things.

However it's quite easily done. It's not as if he has to physically go to each one he has people he calls to go out and fix issues with boilers, carpets, etc. Again letting them out is the biggest issue and finding someone who won't trash the place or withold rent.

 

[Vanilla]

I would say not being electrocuted is a better quality of life, than, well, being electrocuted, or gassed or inside a collapsing building.

It's a simple 10 minute safety check. It has nothing to do with QOL. Having a PAT certificate isn't going to improve your QOL.

The tax money has gone into schemes like help to buy ISA and Help to buy equity schemes (and probably some shady contracts to mates from Eton). Oh, and Brexit and COVID measures. The tax gets spent and we could really do with some more, especially from people who could afford to pay some more.

The help to buy ISA came along before the reduction in interest relief. What else have you seen in the last four years?

So now landlords make little profit - many just able to pay the mortgage interest, do you class them as able to pay more? I don't think your line of thinking is going to result in the results you want. You're employed. The government isnt going to give you any more than the bare minimum and less so given the hole COVID has left.