House prices rose 7.3% this year, average now almost £250k

[Deleted User 298457]

£450k loan is £2200 a month mortgage.

what’s the rent on a £500k house in your area ?

You won’t be saving significantly more

I think the point is of the £2200, £1200 or so is going to capital repayments.

Rent on a £500k house is probably what - 1500/1650? The delta would be what goes into savings, for simplicity that would be £700/550.

Edit: Both of my posts ignore maintenance and upkeep of this hypothetical starter home too. Odds are you won't own white goods yet either so short term cash flow gets nailed.

 

[Simon]

Indeed but if you are saving for a £500k house I would expect you rent (or buy) something smaller.

No business started big. They all grew and I now clearly understand why people have a view that some FTB feel entitled to a £500k house and obviously it’s BTL fault they can’t buy one.

You need to start small and work your way up!

 

[413x]

£450k loan is £2200 a month mortgage.

what’s the rent on a £500k house in your area ?

You won’t be saving significantly more

That's surely not right.
Have a 220k mortgage and pay 800 ppm

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Indeed but if you are saving for a £500k house I would expect you rent (or buy) something smaller.

No business started big. They all grew and I now clearly understand why people have a view that some FTB feel entitled to a £500k house and obviously it’s BTL fault they can’t buy one.

You need to start small and work your way up!

Not entitled, it is no easy feat to save £50k on your own. Just some of us were happy to put the effort in and work hard to skip a few of the life steps your generation force down our throat whilst making it unobtainable

Edit: and just like you, we are entitled to have a moan at folk choosing their business to be making money out of the same people you beat the drum about "getting on the ladder".

 

[HACO]

Is 500k the only option for you here though? Could you get a smaller place / place further away from city centre (not sure where you are) and then build capital on that?

I want to get a place to live, rather than an investment hoping for the price to go up to push me ahead of the younger people.

Just do what I did - have your girlfriends Mum die and leave you some money - bloody entitled youngsters

That's the way to go

What exactly are you getting for a 500k house?

I'm just wondering whether you need to compromise a little in order to get onto the ladder. In terms of getting a 450k mortgage, you must have a household income of close to 100k? and you've only managed to save a 50k deposit?

Numbers don't seem to add up here..

I haven't had that income since the day I was born, lol.

I think this is what Bald Eagle means about being entitled. Surely it'll be better to buy a cheaper property and save more for the next step in a couple of years? I doubt this 500k place is the only option, where do you live and what are your requirements?

There are cheaper options, but those are not suitable for my family and I don't want to take them away from the families who are suited to them.

I'm sure you've considered buying something affordable now and then moving to your ideal home, what's your thinking around this option if you don't mind me asking?

Taking a house I don't want to live in off the market, away from someone who may want to live in it. Nope.

You know paying mortgage interest is also slaving away for someone else’s benefit ?

If you accepted a compromise and bought somewhere smaller for a few years you’d now be in the house you want. A £500k first house is rather ambitious ! The phrase ‘getting on the ladder’ wasn’t invented for no reason

My ladder starts at £500k

The whole concept of "property ladder" basically assumes never-ending property price increases and screwing over of future first time buyers. I'm not going to participate in that. I only buy a house that I like to live in, at a time that I can afford it. If I can't find that property, I won't take that chance away by taking a property off the market that is ideal for someone else.

 

[moon man]

I actually had a look at Cornwall after you posted about the sub 60k, and yes there's loads of places for around that amount. Surprised, I assumed they would be a lot more expensive. I do wonder if sometimes people have unrealistic expectations for a first house., with no compromises at all.

I was also surprised coming from West Yorkshire half a decade back, viewed loads at around 100k (some was near derelict I admit) and found something truly stunning at near 100k, but we were open to anywhere and moved without jobs also not scared of some updating,

 

[Deleted User 298457]

<snip>
The whole concept of "property ladder" basically assumes never-ending property price increases and screwing over of future first time buyers. I'm not going to participate in that. I only buy a house that I like to live in, at a time that I can afford it. If I can't find that property, I won't take that chance away by taking a property off the market that is ideal for someone else.

Okay I was being fully supportive but you are edging on being very righteous.

You are already participating in the system of perpetual property increases as that is fundamentally how the world economy works. You will be left behind if you aren't slightly more cognisant of the moving milestones rather than just moaning about them, lol.

 

[shiver]

The whole concept of "property ladder" basically assumes never-ending property price increases and screwing over of future first time buyers. I'm not going to participate in that. I only buy a house that I like to live in, at a time that I can afford it. If I can't find that property, I won't take that chance away by taking a property off the market that is ideal for someone else.

Strange way of looking at it. I don't think anyone expects to buy their forever home as their first home.

So the way you see it, you'll begrudgingly continue renting somewhere until you can afford the house you like? You are also participating in the rental market, taking away a suitable rental from someone else whilst contributing to the demand, pushing the rental prices up.

 

[HACO]

Okay I was being fully supportive but you are edging on being very righteous.

I don't participate in activities that I find unethical. E.g. I would never become a BTL landlord. I know it's a crazy idea but all I want from a house is a place to live in. Not its price appreciation, not its land value, not its ability to put me up a 'ladder' by putting my feet on someone else's shoulders.

You are already participating in the system of perpetual property increases as that is fundamentally how the world economy works. You will be left behind if you aren't slightly more cognisant of the moving milestones rather than just moaning about them, lol.

That's just not true. Japan didn't have property price appreciation above inflation for 25 years and housing became more and more affordable compared to wages as time went by, their economy didn't collapse. The world didn't end. Land owners didn't die of hunger.

Ever increasing property prices at 5x the inflation rate is only a thing in a handful of countries. In most countries, it increases inline with inflation.

It's funny how we assume this is the only way to have a functioning economy, lol.

 

[Russinating]

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but our culture is fairly unique in home ownership being a thing that "should" be done. There's nothing wrong with renting your whole life in many not-so-distant countries.

You can afford to live in much nicer properties than you could buy (or conversely, save money), greater flexibility - particularly if your job demands that - with no unexpected or upkeep costs.

 

[HACO]

Strange way of looking at it. I don't think anyone expects to buy their forever home as their first home.

So the way you see it, you'll begrudgingly continue renting somewhere until you can afford the house you like? You are also participating in the rental market, taking away a suitable rental from someone else whilst contributing to the demand, pushing the rental prices up.

There's no suitable rental property for anyone. It's always exploitative as long as it's for-profit. I'd rather take a hit myself while renting than screw over someone else by buying an unsuitable property in the hope of its price appreciation.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

There's no suitable rental property for anyone. It's always exploitative as long as it's for-profit. I'd rather take a hit myself while renting than screw over someone else by buying an unsuitable property in the hope of its price appreciation.

Do you not participate in the stock market either? Presumably you are saving your cash under a mattress.

A lot more unethical behaviour going on there with much bigger gains than some old bloke cashing in his pension to do a BTL.

 

[HACO]

Do you not participate in the stock market either? Presumably you are saving your cash under a mattress.

A lot more unethical behaviour going on there with much bigger gains than some old bloke cashing in his pension to do a BTL.

I don't invest in companies that do unethical things either, e.g. military industrial complex.

Stock market is also not a matter of life necessity. Buying a BTL = taking 1 house away from someone who can own and live there, to extract profit from them for your own benefit. Owning a Google stock is not a matter for survival, housing is a need for human survival. People don't live in stock markets but still need a roof over their heads.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

I don't invest in companies that do unethical things either, e.g. military industrial complex.

Stock market is also not a matter of life necessity. Buying a BTL = taking 1 house away from someone who can own and live there, to extract profit from them for your own benefit. Housing is a need for human survival. People don't live in stock markets.

I dunno man, the BTL market meant I could live in Zone 1 and plod along to St Pancreas Station in 10 minutes.

I could never have bought the place.

Mine was to get a lifestyle, but people also leverage the rental market to test out areas they may want to live, get into good schools, temporarily look after loved ones.

Which BTL's specifically offend you?

 

[HACO]

I dunno man, the BTL market meant I could live in Zone 1 and plod along to St Pancreas Station in 10 minutes.

I could never have bought the place.

Mine was to get a lifestyle, but people also leverage the rental market to test out areas they may want to live, get into good schools, temporarily look after loved ones.

Which BTL's specifically offend you?

Why couldn't you buy that place? Because BTL landlords bought all the properties, decreasing the housing supply and therefore prices have skyrocketed.

If there were no or little BTLs, all those properties would have been on the market at much lower prices, you'd have been able to buy your own place and most of the people who rent those places would have been owner occupiers.

 

[touch]

I'd rather take a hit myself while renting than screw over someone else by buying an unsuitable property in the hope of its price appreciation.

How do you know exactly how many kids you'll have?
How do you know you won't get divorced in future and end up living alone?
How do you know you won't meet someone else who already has kids and end up living in a large family?
What happens when your kids grow up and move out?

If you try to buy 1 property to suit all your future needs then you're more likely to be taking away an opportunity from someone who suits it better. If you adapt and change properties based on your current needs then you'll only ever have something which suits what you need.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Why couldn't you buy that place? Because BTL landlords bought all the properties, decreasing the housing supply and therefore prices have skyrocketed.

If there were no or little BTLs, all those properties would have been in the market at much lower prices, you'd have been able to buy your own place.

Very unbalanced view of the world. Definitely some BTL landlord has offended you somehow.

You are ignoring desirability of areas, new employers opening nearby (look what Vodafone did to Newbury ), new travel possibilities opening up (10mins walk to the station to get me into Central Europe, wowza), greanification, tidying up of the canals (Camden town etc).

I would also be competing with a global audience as folk living in central New York, Milan, Frankfurt would see my pokey 1 bed as a bargain for considerably more than I could pay.

 

[HACO]

How do you know exactly how many kids you'll have?
How do you know you won't get divorced in future and end up living alone?
How do you know you won't meet someone else who already has kids and end up living in a large family?
What happens when your kids grow up and move out?

If you try to buy 1 property to suit all your future needs then you're more likely to be taking away an opportunity from someone who suits it better. If you adapt and change properties based on your current needs then you'll only ever have something which suits what you need.

You're misunderstanding me.

1) It's OK to buy a property that's suitable for you NOW, and if your circumstances changed, then move. That's totally fine.

2) People suggested that I buy a property that's UNSUITABLE now, so that its price appreciation will help me buy one that's suitable in the future.

See the difference? The first one I'd do (and that's what I want to do), the second one is what I refuse to do.

 

[HACO]

Very unbalanced view of the world. Definitely some BTL landlord has offended you somehow.

You are ignoring desirability of areas, new employers opening nearby (look what Vodafone did to Newbury ), new travel possibilities opening up (10mins walk to the station to get me into Central Europe, wowza), greanification, tidying up of the canals (Camden town etc).

I would also be competing with a global audience as folk living in central New York, Milan, Frankfurt would see my pokey 1 bed as a bargain for considerably more than I could pay.

Global audience (again BTL landlords of another kind), are part of the problem. In my opinion you shouldn't be able to buy a property in the UK unless you are resident in the UK, or at the very least it should be taxed something like 500% of the value, to be invested in building social and affordable housing.

Prices can increase due to all those factors and these are facts of life, however, BTL landlords are not a fact of life and proper policy can make sure the can't exploit those less fortunate than them.

BTL landlords are the payday lenders of the housing industry, and in the UK they have a completely unregulated market with significant tax treatments benefits (i.e. they are subsidised by our tax money).

 

[shiver]

So with that logic, if there were no international buyers or BTL landlords, we should all be able to afford 5 bed houses in Zone 1 London if that's suitable for our needs?