Housing crisis solutions

["andy"]

But that's the thing, it's not just my area. Or just London.

So 100k for a 3-bed house... where can you get that in this country anymore?

Up north on an ex council estate

Buy to lets are the problem in this country . It's just such easy money for anyone with any money

The whole rental market is propped up by the benefits system too up here. even those ex council estate properties mentioned above because even if someone on an average wage can't afford to rent it some scummers on housing benefit can

 

[FoxEye]

Yeah according to that article linked earlier, 25 billion a year goes in housing benefit to private landlords.

The most expensive social security state outlay after pensions, it was said.

 

[UTmaniac]

Government buys farms that have a decent amount of land for a fair price, then builds some decent rental council housing that remains owned by government.

Reversing some of the mess created by Maggie, yes her policy helped some families in the short term by letting them buy their council house, but long term it has added to the chaos we have today.

 

[Woden]

Then we all pay more for food?

 

[Tefal]

Perhaps make it so that land sold for residential purposes must be built on within X years, and can only be sold y times (to prevent them coluding to play pass the land parcel)

So say land must be built on withing 5 years of purchase and can only be sold on 3 times before it becomes state property.

That way it forced the land price down each sale and makes it more likley to be developed

i still say this eat into the huge amount of land being horded

 

[FoxEye]

Then we all pay more for food?

The amount we spend on food is negligible compared to rent. Unless people live on take-aways or ready meals.

We're getting ever more reliant on imported food anyhow. If we wanted to grow more food we'd simply have to reduce the amount of meat consumed.

Cattle farming is the least efficient way to produce food from the land there is.

 

[Tefal]

The amount we spend on food is negligible compared to rent. Unless people live on take-aways or ready meals.

We're getting ever more reliant on imported food anyhow. If we wanted to grow more food we'd simply have to reduce the amount of meat consumed.

Cattle farming is the least efficient way to produce food from the land there is.

farm feilds tend to be ****tily placed for transport links though

 

[Woden]

Make all crimes capital, turn the prison's into gated communities.

 

[dowie]

But that's the thing, it's not just my area. Or just London.

Is there any place now where the average 3-bed house price is 3-4x the average wage?

So 100k for a 3-bed house... where can you get that in this country anymore?

I'm not sure why that is relevant to the point I was making really?

 

[FoxEye]

farm feilds tend to be ****tily placed for transport links though

Not sure how you can say that. When towns and cities expand, what do they expand into? The surrounding fields.

What surrounds all the existing transport links? Fields.

When new housing estates are built, they're built on fields... Because there's not many other places you can build them on

I guess for large sprawling industrial cities you have brown field sites and inner city regeneration, but I think it's much more normal that new developments are built on fields.

 

[dowie]

Cattle farming is the least efficient way to produce food from the land there is.

well if a farmer is raising cattle on land that he could grow crops on then he's pretty dumb

but you'll find that cattle, sheep etc.. are often raised in areas where conditions aren't so ideal for crops... I mean you can raise sheep up Welsh mountains or in the Scottish Highlands, Cattle can be raised in desert areas of Nevada even... it isn't like someone would otherwise have planted a field of maze in some of these locations.

 

[FoxEye]

I'm not sure why that is relevant to the point I was making really?

I'm not sure what point you were making.

We've been pointing out that it is more difficult today to have a house and housing security, than it was for our parents. That for some people it's nigh on impossible without working 100 hour weeks.

You said that it boiled down to choice. That you choose to work hard for a house or you somehow choose not to have a house by not working hard.

And someone else pointed out that if everybody works 100 hour weeks, so as to have more money, then house prices would go up anyhow.

You're saying it's OK to have a "choice" between sacrificing everything to own a house or being an economic slave to someone else.

We're saying that that wasn't a choice our parents had to make. That it's not a reasonable choice to have to make at all.

 

[dowie]

I'm not sure what point you were making.

I was disputing this statement

'In short, there is no way out of this situation.'

when some of the restrictions you've got are seemingly self imposed and simply the result of personal choice

I've not once suggested anyone work 100 hour weeks - the points I highlighted were things like choosing whether to acquire new skills or qualifications, whether to stay in the same area or move for work

 

[FoxEye]

But again if owning a house is dependent on being well paid (and why else would you acquire new skills?), then you are saying that only well paid people should have a chance of owning a house.

So why should housing become the domain of the well paid professional? The whole point is, it wasn't until fairly recently. People on average wages could afford a house.

It's only in recent times where you *must* become a well-paid professional to have any chance. And what if I can't acquire new skills? What if I'm just not blessed with the smarts to get a degree, or become a top consultant...

The picture you paint is that those who can't get on the housing ladder have "chosen" not to.

 

[dowie]

But again if owning a house is dependent on being well paid (and why else would you acquire new skills?), then you are saying that only well paid people should have a chance of owning a house.

No I'm saying that your statement that there is 'no way out of this situation' isn't really correct as you've imposed certain restrictions on yourself through personal choice.

 

[FoxEye]

No I'm saying that your statement that there is 'no way out of this situation' isn't really correct as you've imposed certain restrictions on yourself through personal choice.

As said, I could get a house if I:

1. Moved to somewhere like Sunderland
2. Worked 100 hours a week to afford the mortgage

This is not a choice. It's ridiculous that this should be the only way to get a place to live.

Again, my parents didn't need to do this.

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that the current generation has a much worse deal?

Why do you want to paint us as lazy and entitled instead?

And anyway, when everybody from London/Cornwall, etc, moves up to Sunderland... what happens to prices in Sunderland? The become unaffordable.

This is not a problem that you can solve by people working more hours and moving to depressed areas.

Prices in those depressed areas will simply skyrocket then. We are already seeing this with the areas around London. People moving out of London, now the surrounding areas are crazy expensive too.

What part of that is not true?

 

[dowie]

As said, I could get a house if I:

1. Moved to somewhere like Sunderland
2. Worked 100 hours a week to afford the mortgage

This is not a choice. It's ridiculous that this should be the only way to get a place to live.

it isn't... you've got a deposit that would be fine for more areas of the country except the other issues are simply being in a low paid job and being a single person. You seem to think the solution to being in a low paid job is working 100 hours a week

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that the current generation has a much worse deal?

It isn't hard it just isn't relevant to the point I was making.

Why do you want to paint us as lazy and entitled instead?

I'm not, well you are coming across as a bit entitled but my argument was simply that you seem to have restricted yourself somewhat through personal choices you've made. It wasn't a criticism but an observation - I don't own a cat for example and maybe there is some greater personal utility for you in owning a cat and living at home than renting elsewhere where there may be better availability of jobs... different strokes for different folkes and all that...


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And anyway, when everybody from London/Cornwall, etc, moves up to Sunderland... what happens to prices in Sunderland? The become unaffordable.

This is not a problem that you can solve by people working more hours and moving to depressed areas.

Prices in those depressed areas will simply skyrocket then. We are already seeing this with the areas around London. People moving out of London, now the surrounding areas are crazy expensive too.

This bit is more of a straw man, I've not advocated moving to Sunderland

 

[Dis86]

House prices in Sunderland will never be unaffordable.

 

[FoxEye]

House prices in Sunderland will never be unaffordable.

We'll see.

Investors from London are in the process of buying up all the run down housing in places like Manchester, spending a couple k on a paint job, and rent them out.

Even places that you think will be ****holes forever are now being fought over by investors who want to branch out from the London market and are looking for cheaper property elsewhere.

The popularity of TV shows like "homes under the hammer" shows that there are *plenty* of people looking to snap up houses all over the country for BTL purposes. Heck that show *exists* to encourage people to become BTL landlords. The first thing the do when looking at a property is to assess the rental income you could get from it :/

 

[FoxEye]

it isn't... you've got a deposit that would be fine for more areas of the country except the other issues are simply being in a low paid job and being a single person. You seem to think the solution to being in a low paid job is working 100 hours a week

For most of us the only way to earn more money is a 2nd job or more hours. It's not the exception it's the rule.

People who are capable of earning big bucks aren't still in low-paid jobs in their 30s.

There's not much I can do to earn more money. I don't necessarily have the skills or the aptitude to learn new ones. I know my limitations. I'm not academic, and I'm not really creative either.

I do 2nd line IT as its about the only thing I'm good half-decent at.

I'm not, well you are coming across as a bit entitled

I'm bitter that it was so much easier for my parents' generation is so dismally hard for me. Call that entitled if you like. I just don't want to bust out 100 hours a week for something people used to take forgranted.