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Amp34 said:
It makes more sense if you understand how IQ tests actually work.

You can't compare different countries and cultures with different tests for example.
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edit - actually not sure it it was the same test used across all countries or more of an observational study. Though there isn't much other data to suggest that these scores are particularly wrong.
 
dowie said:
edit - actually not sure it it was the same test used across all countries or more of an observational study. Though there isn't much other data to suggest that these scores are particularly wrong.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-intelligence-is-a-fallacy-study-8425911.html

As an example. IQ tests just aren't reliable indicators of intelligence.

They aren't awful if you want an indication of what they are testing, and have a sample that have similar educational backgrounds, but otherwise really aren't great.
 
dowie said:
edit - actually not sure it it was the same test used across all countries or more of an observational study. Though there isn't much other data to suggest that these scores are particularly wrong.
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A company I used to work for had a factory based in Angola. I can well believe those scores...
 
Amp34 said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-intelligence-is-a-fallacy-study-8425911.html

As an example. IQ tests just aren't reliable indicators of intelligence.

They aren't awful if you want an indication of what they are testing, and have a sample that have similar educational backgrounds, but otherwise really aren't great.
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I'm not quite sure what your point is - no one has argued here that they're reliable indicators of intelligence.

the researchers were interested in global inequality and the correlation of national IQ and economic development
 
dowie said:
I'm not quite sure what your point is - no one has argued here that they're reliable indicators of intelligence.
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So out of interest what are you and Dis suggesting below?

dowie said:
LOL

had to google this:

https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country

the scores for some African countries are a bit :eek:

Two standard deviations below the mean is 'mental retardation' - for some African nations their average score is below that!
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Dis86 said:
A company I used to work for had a factory based in Angola. I can well believe those scores...
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dowie said:
that sub saharan africans tend to have quite low IQ scores and that might go some way to explaining the dire state of plenty of sub saharan African countries
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But we just agreed that IQ has little to do with intelligence.

There are a lot of problems with many sub saharan nations (environment, geography, war, corruption and colonial legacy being some), but IQ and intelligence are unlikely to be two of those.
 
Amp34 said:
But we just agreed that IQ has little to do with intelligence.
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IQ is not 'intelligence', yes

that doesn't mean it is a completely useless thing to measure - there is correlation between IQ and earnings for example

There are a lot of problems with many sub saharan nations (environment, geography, war, corruption and colonial legacy being some), but IQ and intelligence are unlikely to be two of those.
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What makes you say that?

If a rough indicator of the analytical ability of the general population is generally significantly low then this isn't a good thing. Sure, to be pedantic, the IQ score itself isn't the issue but what it is measuring quite likely is an issue.

There are plenty of things that could be affecting it - such as poor nutrition, a violent culture, early access to education etc...
 
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I'd rather watch that than those revolting money supermarket adverts. At least that advert is so bad it's funny, the money supermarket ones make you want to retch.
 
dowie said:
IQ is not 'intelligence', yes

that doesn't mean it is a completely useless thing to measure - there is correlation between IQ and earnings for example



What makes you say that?

If a rough indicator of the analytical ability of the general population is generally significantly low then this isn't a good thing. Sure, to be pedantic, the IQ score itself isn't the issue but what it is measuring quite likely is an issue.

There are plenty of things that could be affecting it - such as poor nutrition, a violent culture, early access to education etc...
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There may be a correlation between earnings and IQ in the UK and west, but in Africa as well?

TBH you're probably most accurate with the education point. Lack of money for education is a major issue in many sub saharan nations, meaning many aren't educated to remotely good enough standards. "violent culture" is a bit of a stretch, yes, there is violence in war zones, but it's a rather large stretch to suggest most of those cultures are violent...

The whole question basically boils down to "what is intelligence". IQ tests a small facet of what we consider to be "intelligence" even in the west, but in places like sub saharan Africa Intelligence will likely be measured differently. That's why IQ is a problem and just doesn't work when comparing different cultures. The average IQ of an Angolan (as an example) would be 100 if the IQ test was set specifically for Angolans, as the average has to be 100.
 
Amp34 said:
There may be a correlation between earnings and IQ in the UK and west, but in Africa as well?

TBH you're probably most accurate with the education point. Lack of money for education is a major issue in many sub saharan nations, meaning many aren't educated to remotely good enough standards. "violent culture" is a bit of a stretch, yes, there is violence in war zones, but it's a rather large stretch to suggest most of those cultures are violent...
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it isn't a stretch at all tbh...

The whole question basically boils down to "what is intelligence". IQ tests a small facet of what we consider to be "intelligence" even in the west, but in places like sub saharan Africa Intelligence will likely be measured differently. That's why IQ is a problem and just doesn't work when comparing different cultures. The average IQ of an Angolan (as an example) would be 100 if the IQ test was set specifically for Angolans, as the average has to be 100.
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This has little to do with intelligence, again you're bringing up intelligence not me. IQ tests are a rough measure of analytical ability, if most of the population has very low scores then that does indicate a general problem.
 
dowie said:
it isn't a stretch at all tbh...



This has little to do with intelligence, again you're bringing up intelligence not me. IQ tests are a rough measure of analytical ability, if most of the population has very low scores then that does indicate a general problem.
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You can't take an IQ test is haven't learnt maths, and whatever language the test is in. That doesn't mean you can't analyse.
 
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