How much should I spend?

Raymond Lin · 9 Jul 2017 at 14:15

danlightbulb said:
It seems catch22 though. A better camera, like the RX100, doesn't have sufficient zoom to be flexible.

It's the same thing when you move up to DSLR, to get everything you need to pay for it.

Scam · 9 Jul 2017 at 15:48

Personally I've never owned a point and shoot, but I don't understand the fascination with having epic zoom lenses on them. If people are using them for holiday snaps then that means two things; landscapes and portraits of people. Neither of which require a long zoom.

GTRacer · 9 Jul 2017 at 16:43

To put things in perspective, most phones have lenses that equate to 24-28mm lenses on full-frame sensors and no optical zoom at all. Most people get by fine with that as their primary camera for holidays. 100mm equiv is a lot tighter than it seems on paper, and with the better sensor+lens combo you can crop afterwards with losing a ton of quality.

danlightbulb · 9 Jul 2017 at 18:27

Scam said:
Personally I've never owned a point and shoot, but I don't understand the fascination with having epic zoom lenses on them. If people are using them for holiday snaps then that means two things; landscapes and portraits of people. Neither of which require a long zoom.

GTRacer said:
To put things in perspective, most phones have lenses that equate to 24-28mm lenses on full-frame sensors and no optical zoom at all. Most people get by fine with that as their primary camera for holidays. 100mm equiv is a lot tighter than it seems on paper, and with the better sensor+lens combo you can crop afterwards with losing a ton of quality.

I don't agree, when I look at photos my camera phone has taken they are rubbish.

Here is one I took in Wales.

There is no sharpness to the distance area. Can't really make out any features. If I wanted to zoom in to the waterfall I couldn't.

Here is what happened when I tried to get a good photo of my computer build. Its unusable, can't see a thing.

Here is another one of Snowdonia. It looks lifeless, no colour or sharpness, and again all I get is this wide angle and can't get close to any features.

Compare my snowdonia photos to this one:

And thats the kind of photo I want to have.

Thanks!

ethan · 9 Jul 2017 at 18:33

Yeah but that is a landscape which you would get with the RX100 or any other camera with a decent sensor. You could quite possibly tweak the saturation, remove most, if not all of the haze, sharpen and adjust the contrast post with the former (Photo).

danlightbulb · 9 Jul 2017 at 18:45

ethan said:
Yeah but that is a landscape which you would get with the RX100 or any other camera with a decent sensor. You could quite possibly tweak the saturation, remove most, if not all of the haze, sharpen and adjust the contrast post with the former (Photo).

Sure but what if want to zoom in to the waterfall, and still be able to make out the detail and the colour? I don't think 3.6x zoom is going to get that water fall in full shot is it?

Here is a photo of a beach in Cyprus I took (my sisters wedding). Its nice, but looks so dull. The sun was just starting to go down here. If I wanted to get a close up of that rock, I couldn't.

Raymond Lin · 9 Jul 2017 at 18:51

You've got to lower your expectations, or prepare to spend more.

If you tell me, I just want to take landscapes. That's easy, certain camera or lenses will do that.

If you tell me, I just want to take birds photos. That's easy, certain cameras or lenses will do that.

If you tell me. I want to photograph my wife. That's easy, certain cameras or lenses will do that.

If you tell me you want to do all those? You either put up the money to get quality gear that can do all of them, or don't have the money and get low end quality from all of them.

You get what you pay for, if there is a camera can do all of it for £300, I wouldn't need £2,000 lens that doesn't even come with a body. If you want the best, you have to pay for it.

Compacts have their place and use, they are good when used within their capabilities and you got to know what those are and make full use of it. You can easily do that snowdonia photo with a RX100.

Mr Badger · 9 Jul 2017 at 18:57

The Sony RX100 is a great camera and it's not as expensive as you seem to think. You're quoting a cost of £350 however it's available brand new from John Lewis for £309 with a 2 year guarantee and it also appears that you can claim £50 cash back.

https://www.johnlewis.com/sony-cybe..._f67d3e87789db192a4fdfc02ffe82995&tmcampid=48

Raymond Lin · 9 Jul 2017 at 18:58

You need to learn how to process photos too.

danlightbulb · 9 Jul 2017 at 18:59

I don't want the best because I know I can't afford that and its not practical to carry around.

I want something that can take a nice landscape and bring out the colour and detail.

I want something that could zoom into that waterfall as if I was standing 20 meters from it instead of 200.

I want something that can take a better night shot than this blurry mess:

And I'd like to have something that would make people come more to life in photos rather than looking bland against the scenery.

I am sure the RX100 would tick all those boxes at plenty good enough quality, except the zoom issue.

Mr Badger said:
The Sony RX100 is a great camera and it's not as expensive as you seem to think. You're quoting a cost of £350 however it's available brand new from John Lewis for £309 with a 2 year guarantee and it also appears that you can claim £50 cash back.

https://www.johnlewis.com/sony-cybe..._f67d3e87789db192a4fdfc02ffe82995&tmcampid=48

Ah thanks - I was quoting Argos prices. But still, the only thing stopping me is the zoom issue.

Raymond Lin said:
You need to learn how to process photos too.

I will try and learn some stuff. But if Im starting with a low res pixelated mess, can it be improved?

MichaelAwkward · 9 Jul 2017 at 19:00

What about a used RX10?

Same sensor as the RX100 but a much more interesting lens.

I love mine, think I paid less than £350 from eBay but I may have been lucky.

It's still smaller and lighter than a small DSLR.

Raymond Lin · 9 Jul 2017 at 19:03

To bring out colours - learn to process.
To take night shots - keep the camera still (manual mode)

Both of each don't involve an expensive camera.

danlightbulb · 9 Jul 2017 at 19:14

Here is a zoom photo that took my eye whilst reading reviews:

Here is the original:

and the zoomed:

Now I think this is great because that beach is miles away in that first photo, barely even able to make it out, and yet its like you are right on top of it in the second. This is from the review of the Sony WX350. Will the RX100 be comparable to this?

Raymond Lin · 9 Jul 2017 at 19:26

I have never ever thought of doing something like that, never mind doing it.

That's not something you do, it's just to show how much detail the senor and lens can render. If you print the resulting image out, it will look terrible.

danlightbulb · 9 Jul 2017 at 19:29

Raymond Lin said:
I have never ever thought of doing something like that, never mind doing it.

That's not something you do, it's just to show how much detail the senor and lens can render. If you print the resulting image out, it will look terrible.

Hmm. I feel like the first thing I would do when having a nice view like that is to zoom in and find some nice features to photograph.

The same scenario could occur if on the beach and the boy is playing in the sea with the missus 30 meters away. I might want a close up shot, rather than having them as dots in the picture almost.

In a nutshell, the lack of zoom is putting me off the RX100, especially given the price. Wheras the small sensor size is putting me off the WX350 or the W830 as its no better than a modern mobile phone sensor. Shame there isn't something that combines both of these. A good sensor and 8x zoom, for around £300.

bsoltan · 9 Jul 2017 at 19:40

To be able to zoom to that extent you will not be able to do it hand-held, which means you'll going to need a tripod and most likely a remote shutter because even (de)pressing the shutter button will cause camera shake.
So much is mentiond on the review page although they don't describe how they took the picture.
https://www.cameralabs.com/sony_cyber-shot_wx350/

I'd certainly be wary of buying a camera to use at 20x zoom and expect clear pictures every time.
If you're desperate for zoom then it is probably OK but the RX100 is going to be better for all your other uses.

Raymond Lin · 9 Jul 2017 at 19:56

Don't take this the wrong way but the need to zoom in for every photo is a trait that almost every beginner photographer goes through. It's why all the compacts aimed at the consumer market uses the 20x zoom marketing sales pitch. When you go to the mid to high end level you don't see this at all. The 24-105 does not say this is a 5x zoom on the box. You'll soon find not many photographer comes out of this wanting to zoom into everything phrase but because very little good photograph comes out of it. There are certain situations that you need it for like birds or sports but for stills objects it's not something people do.

danlightbulb · 9 Jul 2017 at 20:03

Raymond Lin said:
Don't take this the wrong way but the need to zoom in for every photo is a trait that almost every beginner photographer goes through. It's why all the compacts aimed at the consumer market uses the 20x zoom marketing sales pitch. When you go to the mid to high end level you don't see this at all. The 24-105 does not say this is a 5x zoom on the box. You'll soon find not many photographer comes out of this wanting to zoom into everything phrase but because very little good photograph comes out of it. There are certain situations that you need it for like birds or sports but for stills objects it's not something people do.

Thanks. I can understand that, that once photographers get more professional that the needs might change. Ive highlighted a bit, these action shots are something I would want the camera for, not just still scenery and family poses. My son plays under 11 football, it would be great to get some close up action shots of him.

Mr Badger · 9 Jul 2017 at 20:16

danlightbulb said:
Thanks. I can understand that, that once photographers get more professional that the needs might change. Ive highlighted a bit, these action shots are something I would want the camera for, not just still scenery and family poses. My son plays under 11 football, it would be great to get some close up action shots of him.

Trying to shoot zoomed in sports pictures with a cheap mega zoom lens camera is unlikely to end well - especially if the light is less than full on sunshine.

Raymond Lin · 9 Jul 2017 at 20:23

A compact is not a sports camera, I mean it is one if that's what you use it for but what it is inside is not geared for that. For sports you need really fast shutter speed and this means you'll need fast aperture, at 400mm end if you want 1/2000th of a second you need something like f/4 and probably ISO800 on an average English winter afternoon. A compact won't do that aperature and at ISO800 the files might be falling apart.

Then there is the AI servo tracking for moving subject, people complaint about the tracking for a £3,000 bodies like the Canon 5D4 or Sony A7R2.

I'd be shocked if this camera can do what you think it can do for £150.