Soldato
Bumping this after this weekend 
going to have a shoulder mobility and Olympic lifting session tonight!
going to have a shoulder mobility and Olympic lifting session tonight!How to clean: an idiot's guide by a wannabe.
- Thread starter mrthingyx
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Bumping this after this weekend
I've just... I've just...
Awesome!
Cleans rock.....I can't snatch to save my life though
But snatching is easier than cleaning...
EDIT: I should probably update this thread with a few bits, too. The technique in the OP is a very basic one to get hips working properly, and could do with some more work to make sure it stays relevant. Assuming people use it, of course.
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Right... after a couple of questions around first/second pull/whatever for both snatch and clean, I thought I'd give this thread a quick and dirty update.
The first pull
The point of this is (unsurprisingly) to get the bar from dead on the floor into position for the second pull, so it involves lifting the weight whilst keeping the torso in the primed position for the second pull. This means the first pull involves much hamstring recruitment.
I'll explain this for the snatch, as this is the most uncomfortable/hard position for most people to assume.
Start off with your heels pretty close together (around 6-7-ish inches for me) and toes out at around 5-to-1. This will let you (and you should do this anyway, but...) really crank your knees out and get your bum and shoulders into line.
When you're in the starting position for the snatch (give your knees 5 degrees from standing tall and straight, chest out, etc., and pushing your bum back as far as it will go), have your chest hard up and are braced, the next bit is simple: pull your knees back and push your heels down.
You will need to brace hard for this, particularly at heavier weights because you're practically horizontal. However, the lift itself is remarkably simple.
Here's a quick'n'dirty vid from the office gym...
What you can also see if my toes rocking up, which is me emphasising the point of heels. The closer to the heel line (a vertical line up through your heels) the bar is at the beginning of the second pull, the greater the power generated from the second drive phase.
If there is one take away from this, it is HEELS. ALWAYS HEELS.
Completion of the lift is when the bar gets to just below your knee. It is that simple. A favourite exercise of mine is first pulls in RDL style. This - assuming a good position - is not fun for the hamstrings, core or shoulders.
Here is Lu Xiaojun snatching, and he's pretty good at it...
The first pull
The point of this is (unsurprisingly) to get the bar from dead on the floor into position for the second pull, so it involves lifting the weight whilst keeping the torso in the primed position for the second pull. This means the first pull involves much hamstring recruitment.
I'll explain this for the snatch, as this is the most uncomfortable/hard position for most people to assume.
Start off with your heels pretty close together (around 6-7-ish inches for me) and toes out at around 5-to-1. This will let you (and you should do this anyway, but...) really crank your knees out and get your bum and shoulders into line.
When you're in the starting position for the snatch (give your knees 5 degrees from standing tall and straight, chest out, etc., and pushing your bum back as far as it will go), have your chest hard up and are braced, the next bit is simple: pull your knees back and push your heels down.
You will need to brace hard for this, particularly at heavier weights because you're practically horizontal. However, the lift itself is remarkably simple.
Here's a quick'n'dirty vid from the office gym...
What you can also see if my toes rocking up, which is me emphasising the point of heels. The closer to the heel line (a vertical line up through your heels) the bar is at the beginning of the second pull, the greater the power generated from the second drive phase.
If there is one take away from this, it is HEELS. ALWAYS HEELS.
Completion of the lift is when the bar gets to just below your knee. It is that simple. A favourite exercise of mine is first pulls in RDL style. This - assuming a good position - is not fun for the hamstrings, core or shoulders.
Here is Lu Xiaojun snatching, and he's pretty good at it...
Just discovered a fun article on the training of weightlifters with squatz... this will be fun in determining a new routine...
Relative Value of the Back Squat in the Training of Weightlifters
"CONCLUSIONS: Although the back squat is undoubtedly the most universally applied assistance exercise in the training of weightlifters, it should not be considered "the fundamental training exercise for the snatch." Significant differences in the biomechanics of the two exercises as well as the coordination structure and the specifics of the strength required for the snatch preclude such a conclusion.
Although the back squat is by far more of an assistance exercise for the clean and jerk, one should consider the following exercises in order of importance for strengthening the legs for the clean and jerk: classic clean and jerk, squat clean, front squat, eccentric front squat (if the lifter has difficulty in the recovery phase) and back squat.
When one takes into consideration how the muscles of the lower extremities are utilized most effectively in the execution of the classic snatch and the clean and jerk, then, over the long term of training, the back squat should be considered one of the exercises, not "the exercise" that the athlete should utilize to develop and maintain a "reserve" strength in the legs for the recovery phase of the clean."
Relative Value of the Back Squat in the Training of Weightlifters
"CONCLUSIONS: Although the back squat is undoubtedly the most universally applied assistance exercise in the training of weightlifters, it should not be considered "the fundamental training exercise for the snatch." Significant differences in the biomechanics of the two exercises as well as the coordination structure and the specifics of the strength required for the snatch preclude such a conclusion.
Although the back squat is by far more of an assistance exercise for the clean and jerk, one should consider the following exercises in order of importance for strengthening the legs for the clean and jerk: classic clean and jerk, squat clean, front squat, eccentric front squat (if the lifter has difficulty in the recovery phase) and back squat.
When one takes into consideration how the muscles of the lower extremities are utilized most effectively in the execution of the classic snatch and the clean and jerk, then, over the long term of training, the back squat should be considered one of the exercises, not "the exercise" that the athlete should utilize to develop and maintain a "reserve" strength in the legs for the recovery phase of the clean."
Say i don't actually want to clean... I just want to get the bar into the front rack position by whatever means necessary; am I better off just deadlifting the bar up and them power cleaning as opposed to doing it in one continuous movement?
Also, what do you do if your hip drive sucks, other than keep practising the hip drive? Any supplementary exercises?
Also, what do you do if your hip drive sucks, other than keep practising the hip drive? Any supplementary exercises?
Yes. The only reason to clean/snatch from the floor is if you want to be a competition Olympic lifter.
Keep practising: this actually can benefit your other hip-based lifts (deadlift, squat and... err... front squat).
Some supporting exercises may be single leg box jumps, SLDLs, RDLs, split squats... anything that gets your hamstrings, glutes and quads firing nicely.
The irony of this - as outlined in the quote above - is that whilst the back squat provides statistically good support for the snatch, the only way to get good at Olympic lifting is to practice them. Lots. And lots. And lots.
Due to an overwhelming lack of requests to update this thread, and a slow day at work, I've decided to have a play. I will be updating the OP with the slightly less idiotic idiot's guide to clean/snatch/whatever as the original only went through getting the hip draaaaaahve working.
So, fun stuff that derives from Olympic lifting. What are some exercises that people may/may not find useful in their bodybuilding/power lifting regimes?
JERK DRIVE
Essentially, the power part of the jerk which may or may not be used as part of a full power/split jerk. This exercise is useful for them, sure, but if you athlete at all, performing this exercise generates more power than any other in either the clean'n'jerk or snatch sequences.
It's great for balance, nervous system blitzing and shoulder/upper back/core stability. And it will be an interesting qualifier for you to determine how much oomph you're getting from your legs in either Push Press or anything leg-related.
How to do this?
1) Front rack the bar, and pin your shoulders back in the 'stable/neutral' position. What you'll get is your elbows slightly down and the bar resting closer to your clavicles than in the regular front rack.
2) Prep phase by giving your knees that 5 degree bend and sink back into your hips as far as you can comfortably hold the bar.
3) With a core of steel, drive through your heels and get those hips through!
4) The bar should lift off your shoulders, so guide it up and down, giving at your hips/knees to catch it.
5) Rinse and repeat. I generally go for low reps on jerks because they are horrendous and make my CNS go nuts...
A fun point: I read a study on jerk technique, which noted that lifters whose dip and drive was as fast as they could manage achieved something like 50% spring reflex from the bar itself, meaning greater lift, whereas a pause at the bottom of the 'dip' caused all that elastic energy to be lost as heat...
SNATCH/CLEAN SECOND PULLS
If you want something to fry your glutes and traps, give these a shot with something heavy. Snatch grip will murder your entire upper back, and the cleans will decimate your traps.
Practically speaking, weightlifting studies note a statistical correlation between the top lifters and the lack of heavy pulls in their respective regimes, essentially on a point of specificity: want to get good at Olympic lifting? Do Olympic lifting. The motor pattern of pulls is slightly different to the full lifts, so doesn't serve a direct purpose, but is awesome for general explosive powaaaah!... and huge traps.
How to do this?
1) Set your top position with the bar gripped for snatch/clean;
2) Give your knees 5 degrees and sink back into your hips, pushing them back as far as they will go, keeping your shoulders in front of the bar.
3) Depending on how far you want to drive, sink as low as you need. I would stop above the knee unless you want to actually try Olympic lifting...
4) Assume your drive position with your core braced.
5) Keeping your shoulders pinned and core locked tight, drive up through your heels and slam your hips/thighs through the bar.
6) Shrug. Not the type that will make you go blind, but yank your elbows straight up as hard and fast as they will go. An ideal end position is with the humerus parallel to the floor (90 degrees from your torso). If you're in the right place, you should be leaning ever-so-slightly backwards.
I'd suggest using straps for these. Particularly if using a snatch grip, as the bar will try to eat your hands. Good luck if you're fortunate enough to have an Eleiko bar, as I understand these actually have teeth. Also, when you get your shoulders over the bar, you should really feel a biiiiiig pull in your lats: this will tell you your shoulders are over the bar enough.
FIRST PULL
Explained in a previous post, these are great for learning how to get into a decent and stable position to drive from, either for a deadlift or clean/snatch. If you do them heavy, your hamstrings, calves, core and shoulders will hate you forever.
You can turn them into a more interesting form of torture by using a slightly lighter weight and performing 6-8 reps with a controlled negative (knees come forward) and not letting the bar touch the ground... but make sure your core is up to it. This hurts. A lot.
The above movement will really tax all the muscles outlined above and particularly the upper back if using a snatch grip...
As posted, I'll see if I can get videos of these so that you can see what I'm actually talking about... Enjoy, and good luck!
So, fun stuff that derives from Olympic lifting. What are some exercises that people may/may not find useful in their bodybuilding/power lifting regimes?
JERK DRIVE
Essentially, the power part of the jerk which may or may not be used as part of a full power/split jerk. This exercise is useful for them, sure, but if you athlete at all, performing this exercise generates more power than any other in either the clean'n'jerk or snatch sequences.
It's great for balance, nervous system blitzing and shoulder/upper back/core stability. And it will be an interesting qualifier for you to determine how much oomph you're getting from your legs in either Push Press or anything leg-related.
How to do this?
1) Front rack the bar, and pin your shoulders back in the 'stable/neutral' position. What you'll get is your elbows slightly down and the bar resting closer to your clavicles than in the regular front rack.
2) Prep phase by giving your knees that 5 degree bend and sink back into your hips as far as you can comfortably hold the bar.
3) With a core of steel, drive through your heels and get those hips through!
4) The bar should lift off your shoulders, so guide it up and down, giving at your hips/knees to catch it.
5) Rinse and repeat. I generally go for low reps on jerks because they are horrendous and make my CNS go nuts...
A fun point: I read a study on jerk technique, which noted that lifters whose dip and drive was as fast as they could manage achieved something like 50% spring reflex from the bar itself, meaning greater lift, whereas a pause at the bottom of the 'dip' caused all that elastic energy to be lost as heat...
SNATCH/CLEAN SECOND PULLS
If you want something to fry your glutes and traps, give these a shot with something heavy. Snatch grip will murder your entire upper back, and the cleans will decimate your traps.
Practically speaking, weightlifting studies note a statistical correlation between the top lifters and the lack of heavy pulls in their respective regimes, essentially on a point of specificity: want to get good at Olympic lifting? Do Olympic lifting. The motor pattern of pulls is slightly different to the full lifts, so doesn't serve a direct purpose, but is awesome for general explosive powaaaah!... and huge traps.
How to do this?
1) Set your top position with the bar gripped for snatch/clean;
2) Give your knees 5 degrees and sink back into your hips, pushing them back as far as they will go, keeping your shoulders in front of the bar.
3) Depending on how far you want to drive, sink as low as you need. I would stop above the knee unless you want to actually try Olympic lifting...
4) Assume your drive position with your core braced.
5) Keeping your shoulders pinned and core locked tight, drive up through your heels and slam your hips/thighs through the bar.
6) Shrug. Not the type that will make you go blind, but yank your elbows straight up as hard and fast as they will go. An ideal end position is with the humerus parallel to the floor (90 degrees from your torso). If you're in the right place, you should be leaning ever-so-slightly backwards.
I'd suggest using straps for these. Particularly if using a snatch grip, as the bar will try to eat your hands. Good luck if you're fortunate enough to have an Eleiko bar, as I understand these actually have teeth. Also, when you get your shoulders over the bar, you should really feel a biiiiiig pull in your lats: this will tell you your shoulders are over the bar enough.
FIRST PULL
Explained in a previous post, these are great for learning how to get into a decent and stable position to drive from, either for a deadlift or clean/snatch. If you do them heavy, your hamstrings, calves, core and shoulders will hate you forever.
You can turn them into a more interesting form of torture by using a slightly lighter weight and performing 6-8 reps with a controlled negative (knees come forward) and not letting the bar touch the ground... but make sure your core is up to it. This hurts. A lot.
The above movement will really tax all the muscles outlined above and particularly the upper back if using a snatch grip...
As posted, I'll see if I can get videos of these so that you can see what I'm actually talking about... Enjoy, and good luck!
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Soldato
Time to do some Clean 2nd pulls tonight!
Hey guys! so instead of making a new thread i thought id piggyback on this. So I've started the powerclean into my routine.
Im loving learning this technique but im being told so much conflicting information!
Some say the initial setup is a deadlift , others say its not. Somebody actually told me to RDL to the bar then squat down with my head up!
Also, the 'exploding part' For the life of me i can't seem to get the technique correct. Some say the bar should rub your hips, others say you should 'bump' the bar off your hips.
Sometimes I just tend to muscle it up and skip the hip exploding!
Also when finishing the move do I have front squat down. I thought people tend to do this when the bar got really heavy?
I will master this even if it kills me!
Im loving learning this technique but im being told so much conflicting information!
Some say the initial setup is a deadlift , others say its not. Somebody actually told me to RDL to the bar then squat down with my head up!
Also, the 'exploding part' For the life of me i can't seem to get the technique correct. Some say the bar should rub your hips, others say you should 'bump' the bar off your hips.
Sometimes I just tend to muscle it up and skip the hip exploding!
Also when finishing the move do I have front squat down. I thought people tend to do this when the bar got really heavy?
I will master this even if it kills me!
A powerclean is where the bar is cleaned to a height at which the catch doesn't go below parallel...so don't worry about the front squat necessarily.
May I suggest having a read of the OP first because I think we need to unwind a bit...
Nice to hwar you are having fun with them!
May I suggest having a read of the OP first because I think we need to unwind a bit...
Nice to hwar you are having fun with them!