How to use an apostrophe

Cosimo · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:14

mglover070588 said:
The grammar used on these forums is quite bad.

Send'em all back to school, wait some are probably still there......

Ace Modder · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:19

I just find the whole issue within the OCUK forums regarding grammar rather pedantic and uncalled for in general.

There is a saying which is used often on this forum "the grammar police". This seems to a small amount of members who believe that complaining about the poor state of the minor literacy errors needs fixing. At the end of the day, I don't believe that everyone will ever/or has ever, in the past fully understood every technicality within the English written and/or spoken language, I for one is not perfect.

I am from Wolverhampton, and my spoken dialect is a long long way from the "Queens English". In the real world, does this matter? NO!
Do my colleague's and friends, who grew up in different parts of the country who do not have the same vocal accent and dialect styles have problems understanding me? NO!
I'm a Yam-Yam from the Black Country, the description Yam-Yam is due to the way we speak. It's a localised thing, that goes back generations, and because I'm used to saying "Am you going to the pub?" instead of saying "Are you going to the pub?" this doesn't make me any worse, than anyone who uses the more "correct" language!

Ace Modder · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:22

Hatter The Mad said:
I don't get it, where did I slip up?

I think he means where you typed "I learned this at school" he is commenting that the correct term should be "I learnt this at school" (you learnt something previously, so you should be writing in Past tense context - Learnt is past tense, and learned is not)

Again, this is a minor error, this should not be dwelled upon. The statement made is still understood by all, why get all anal over it.

Kenai · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:22

Ace Modder said:
PLEASE ALSO NOTE THE QUOTED TEXT IS MISSING FULLSTOPS AT THE END OF THE SENTENCES. lol.

Well, there were 2 questions and one statement so really it's missing more question marks than it is full stops

Hatter The Mad · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:23

Ace Modder said:
I for one is not perfect.

I think I just urinated.

But seriously, I respect your opinion - but again, I think you're off this thread's mark. It isn't about "Queens English", it is not about "laziness" - it is about poor literacy in general.

Annoying people like me don't like it. Employers stress over it. The Government are embarrassed by it. Poor literacy is a problem, and it will only get bigger as this generations moves on one.

Hatter The Mad · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:25

Hatter The Mad said:
I don't get it, where did I slip up?

Mr^B said:
My irony-o-meter just exploded.

Ace Modder said:
I think he means where you typed "I learned this at school" he is commenting that the correct term should be "I learnt this at school"

Again, this is a minor error, this should not be dwelled upon.

Well, "learned" is a correct word to use here. Both learned and learnt can be use to describe "[x] acquired by learning", and "Learnt" is solely a (long standing) Britishism derived from "learned".

Ace Modder · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:31

In your opening post you write.

Hatter The Mad said:
Let us clean up OcUK grammar.

But then later when I talk about the OCUK forums and my opinions of the grammar used here, you then reply with.

Hatter The Mad said:
I think you're off this thread's mark. It isn't about "Queens English", it is not about "laziness" - it is about poor literacy in general.

So are you talking about OCUK forums grammar or usage externally of OCUK - eg. the work place? Because you have contradicted yourself.

dirtybeatfreak · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:31

Hatter The Mad said:
I think I just urinated.

But seriously, I respect your opinion - but again, I think you're off this thread's mark. It isn't about "Queens English", it is not about "laziness" - it is about poor literacy in general.

Annoying people like me don't like it. Employers stress over it. The Government are embarrassed by it. Poor literacy is a problem, and it will only get bigger as this generations moves on one.

now you're doing it yourself mate

quoted from http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/difficulties/its.html

The ironclad rule - no exceptions - is that if you can replace the word with "it is" or "it has," use it's. Otherwise, it's always its.

Kenai · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:33

alangelluk said:
now you're doing it yourself mate

quoted from http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/difficulties/its.html

That doesn't mean you should never use 'it is'

dirtybeatfreak · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:34

yea i realised that after i posted it lol ... though it proves my point that people dont think about and just want to 'get involved' in the discussion, so don't think about things when they are typing. People when speaking in person to others dont use 100% correct english language, they use what is natural at the time...but if they were for instance doing a speech, they would change how they spoke to the 'correct' manner. its the same as on here

waits for the flame

Hatter The Mad · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:35

alangelluk said:
now you're doing it yourself mate

quoted from http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/difficulties/its.html

That doesn't mean that "it is" is unacceptable.... :confused:

simisker · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:37

Burnsy2023 said:
This is an apostrophe ' [...]

[pedantic graphic designer mode]

Technically it's not: it's a prime.

’ is an apostrophe.

[uber pedant]
And even that's not 100% correct, as it's technically a single-quote symbol; there is rarely a specific apostrophe symbol included in electronic fonts, for legacy/naivety reasons.
[/uber pedant]

[/pedantic graphic designer mode]

But the fact that I can't enter a proper apostrophe into this post without jumping through hoops goes a long way towards explaining why everyone uses a more easily accessible symbol. In real-world terms, you're right.

This does, however, raise a more pertinent question: if it's universally acceptable to adapt the use of a symbol through convenience/ignorance, why is it less acceptable to adapt the rules behind the symbol?

In other words, as Ace Modder and others have argued, does it really matter about apostrophe placement if the message is conveyed intact? Should we be embracing the evolution of language, rather than tutting and trying to constrain it to the old ideals of the Victorian classroom?

Don't get me wrong: I'm a real stickler for this sort of thing, but I'm also aware that it's a linguistic battle with no clear resolution in sight.

Hatter The Mad · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:37

Ace Modder said:
So are you talking about OCUK forums grammar or usage externally of OCUK - eg. the work place? Because you have contradicted yourself.

Sorry, I have caused confusion - I was talking specifically about "using Queen's English" - I am not talking about accents or speaking, but about writing (and reading). I was referring to your comment about coming from Wolverhampton and not using Queen's English.

Hamster · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:39

Ace Modder said:
Learnt is past tense, and learned is not

Really? I though they both have the same meaning. Which tense is "learned" if it isn't the past tense? Or do you just mean that "learned" is only an adjective e.g. "The learned gentleman..."?

Ace Modder · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:40

Hatter The Mad said:
I am not talking about accents or speaking, but about writing (and reading).

Surely if you are so bothered about people using the wrong written language then the spoken language should also be as important for you? Anyway, I'm going to take a step back from the thread now.

.Lethal · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:41

Ace Modder said:
To be honest, who actually cares if the written text on this forums isn't 100% accurate.

I don't as long as the text is viable reading and the comments are understandable.

Agreed, get over yourselves.

Hatter The Mad · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:42

Ace Modder said:
Surely if you are so bothered about people using the wrong written language then the spoken language should also be as important for you? Anyway, I'm going to take a step back from the thread now.

Not really, because dialects and colloquialism are to be expected. We grow up in different places. However, this does not transcend into literacy - and we all learn the same literacy skills.

Kenai · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:43

JoeMama said:
Really? I though they both have the same meaning. Which tense is "learned" if it isn't the past tense? Or do you just mean that "learned" is only an adjective e.g. "The learned gentleman..."?

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutspelling/learnt

What is the difference between 'learnt' and 'learned'?
These are alternative forms of the past tense and past participle of the verb learn. Learnt is more common in British English, and learned in American English. There are a number of verbs of this type (burn, dream, kneel, lean, leap, spell, spill, spoil etc.). They are all irregular verbs, and this is a part of their irregularity.

gambitt · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:43

thank's for the link.

Ace Modder · 15 Nov 2009 at 14:43

JoeMama said:
Really? I though they both have the same meaning. Which tense is "learned" if it isn't the past tense? Or do you just mean that "learned" is only an adjective e.g. "The learned gentleman..."?

You completely lost the point I was making in my post.... I pointed out what the other post was talking about. My point was not whether it was accurate, my point was more about that in the grand scheme of reading the thread does the text make sense, in the context of what is meant to be the point of the post.