Cack, to say to any F1 team that they have lost interest in f1 is so far from the truth it is an insult. No member within a f1 team is there just for the ride, and that is everyone. Also their road car division is a completely separate entity from the F1 team. I also think you'll find that all the teams in F1 feel that Mclaren have a top line driver in Jb.....
Hungarian Grand Prix 2014, Hungaroring Race - 11/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Lost the will to win? No.
Lost the will to take the big risks or make the difficult decisions? Yes.
It's all Whitmarsh. He didn't have the balls to grab the team and drag them forward, he didn't have the guts to make a stand on Lewis leaving, and he didn't have the confidence to go after top drivers meaning they just hobbled themselves into a knee jerk reaction signing Perez.
Trouble is, I think Boulier is just as bad. Hes already said that McLaren are going to wait and see what all the top drivers do before deciding on their drivers for next year! What the hell? They should be driving the top drivers movements by making offers and going after them, not just sitting there waiting for them all to sort themselves out, and then wandering late to pick up the scraps.
They made some risky decisions and failed, and now they are just too scared to make them any more. Its a team too scared of failure to make the big calls they need for success. The result, they are just treading water. As sunama says, they need a top driver, and a demanding one. If the team bosses haven't got the balls to drive them forward, they need a driver to do it for them.
Unfortunately, the perfect person to do it is very unlikely to ever return to them. Alonso.
Lost the will to take the big risks or make the difficult decisions? Yes.
It's all Whitmarsh. He didn't have the balls to grab the team and drag them forward, he didn't have the guts to make a stand on Lewis leaving, and he didn't have the confidence to go after top drivers meaning they just hobbled themselves into a knee jerk reaction signing Perez.
Trouble is, I think Boulier is just as bad. Hes already said that McLaren are going to wait and see what all the top drivers do before deciding on their drivers for next year! What the hell? They should be driving the top drivers movements by making offers and going after them, not just sitting there waiting for them all to sort themselves out, and then wandering late to pick up the scraps.
They made some risky decisions and failed, and now they are just too scared to make them any more. Its a team too scared of failure to make the big calls they need for success. The result, they are just treading water. As sunama says, they need a top driver, and a demanding one. If the team bosses haven't got the balls to drive them forward, they need a driver to do it for them.
Unfortunately, the perfect person to do it is very unlikely to ever return to them. Alonso.
People throw the Applied technologies and Autmotive thing around quite a lot. Automotive is a completely separate company.
F1 and Automotive really do not get involved with each other on a day to day basis.
Racing is racing
Automotive is automotive
MAT is MAT
and so on.
McLaren certainly want to win, I dont think you can stay at the top forever, every now and again there is a dip. Man utd etc.
You just have to hope that there is someone at the helm that can get you through the rough patch.....imo that man is Ron Dennis.
F1 and Automotive really do not get involved with each other on a day to day basis.
Racing is racing
Automotive is automotive
MAT is MAT
and so on.
McLaren certainly want to win, I dont think you can stay at the top forever, every now and again there is a dip. Man utd etc.
You just have to hope that there is someone at the helm that can get you through the rough patch.....imo that man is Ron Dennis.
Really? This happens all the tome, Ferrari has been the same, Williams massive failure for the last almost two decades.
McLaren need to rebuild and Honda move is a good opportunity, they've hired some more people in, but they still need bigger changes.
And remember that RB saw a world champion in JB as well. I can't see McLaren doing anything until 2016 either, but then nobody expected Brawn to rise from the ashes that were Honda, shoehorn in another engine and thrash everybody so it can happen. Similar to Williams this this year...
Indeed. And that was 5 years ago.
People need to understand that in sport, 5 years is a lifetime.
The best driver/player today isnt likely to be the best driver/player in 5 years.
There are few which buck the trend and have long careers at the top.
MSc, Alonso, Federer, Woods - but these people truly are sporting greats.
Button is no longer what he was in 2009. IMO he peaked the year he beat Hamilton in the WDC.
Can McLaren be great again in 2015. Certainly. They will need the best driver (not 2nd best, which discounts Bottas). And they will need their designers to "luck" into a good car for 2015. If this happens, there is no reason why they couldnt win the title.
Whitmarsh has to take the blame for a lot of what happened.
For 2010, McLaren had Hamilton/Button - champions of the last 2 years. A recipe for success.
For 2013, they got rid of Hamilton (World Champion and arguably the fastest driver in F1) and replaced him with Perez (a driver who has never won a GP in his life).
For 2014, they dropped down another step by replacing Perez, an experienced driver, good at looking after his tyres, with a rookie.
As the years have passed, they have gradually downgraded their drivers.
Their problem is their policy of playing happy families. They need to favour 1 driver. Hakkinen, MSc, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton - all won titles using this No.1 & No.2 strategy. These drivers (and strategy) account for 14 of the last 16 championships. Staggering!!!
In 2012, they did produce the best car...to their credit...but the drivers (and pit lane crew) just werent upto the job. A No.1 and No.2 driver policy would've seen them win the title. They need a great pilot and strategy to get the most out of their car.
McLaren resources are unbelievable. For those who dont know much about McLaren, have a look on youtube and for their videos/documentaries and you will realise how much they strive for perfection and performance. It amazes me that they have won the title only once in the last 14 years. A No1 and No2 strategy wouldve seen them win in 2008 and 2012.
I like to think of McLaren like a sleeping giant. Once it awakes and decides enough is enough - I expect they will win 3-4 titles in a row, with apparent ease. The question is, when will this giant awake?
And how long ago was it that LH last won a championship? Indeed six years is a long time in motor racing. Let's hope Mclaren does wake up and I hope Honda will inject something into the team to make it happen, however given their last involvement in f1 personally I am not holding my breath. However those who think Ron is going wave some magic wand is out of touch with the modern f1. But then look at all of the other struggling big name teams of the present. Something seems to have gone horribly wrong for some teams, Mclaren being one, but right for others, this may well be down to luck although if RB's track record is anything to go by it is judgement.
One other point about JB, and one that everybody seems to have missed and one that makes him special, he has shown a ability to adapt his driving style from when he first came on to the f1 scene to the cars we presently have. Even the great MS, KR and SV haven't been able to get to grips with the technology and the harder tyres we now have. Yes he isn't as complete as driver as Alonso but he is there up with them and makes him an asset to any team...
One other point about JB, and one that everybody seems to have missed and one that makes him special, he has shown a ability to adapt his driving style from when he first came on to the f1 scene to the cars we presently have. Even the great MS, KR and SV haven't been able to get to grips with the technology and the harder tyres we now have. Yes he isn't as complete as driver as Alonso but he is there up with them and makes him an asset to any team...
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I would say JB is just as good as he was, the issue with button is he's not the outright fastest driver and can't man handle a car. He has a narrow driving range, if the car falls in that range he's great. He's also good with odd strategies/weather conditions. But that's like a race or two a year, compared to Hamilton/Alonso who can man handle any car above where it deserves to be race in race out.
He didn't inherit a car in development for 2 years, he started at Honda november 2007. They won the title in 2009.
It was rumoured that Honda was 70+ bhp down on the merc. I'm not sure it would have been enough when red bull caught up. Of course the merc was slapped in the Brawn at short notice and it's hard to tell whether that or the complete lack of grunt the Honda had would have been worse.
Whitmarsh had the balls to poach Jenson from Honda/Brawn though, almost like stealing someone's husband that was. The then to be Mercedes were not happy. Andrew Shovlin was extremely annoyed.
He also almost single handedly secured the Honda Engine deal too.
I think Whitmarsh has been given a harsh time from many people on this forum, he may not be Ross Brawn but don't forget that Mclaren were 2nd behind Red Bull in 2011 and should have won in 2012 if not for reliability issues (which I doubt he had much control over)...
How is it? Formula 1 has existed for around 65 years. Mclaren have been there pretty much from the start, Formula 1 will go on forever, and it's not humanly possible to make a team be consistently at the top year in year out for such an amount of time. No one can be consistently good forever.
At this moment in time it's Mclaren who are having a big dip in performance, the same is happening to Ferrari. Look at the Schumacher years... not exactly setting the world alight at the moment though are they?
Look at Mercedes 3 years ago. Woeful. No wins, like two podiums. Amazing.
Same will happen to Red Bull but because they are such a young team it and are coming off the back of four titles in a row no one can imagine that yet...
Williams were once great, then had a masssssive dip in performance which seemed to go on forever and ever, and no one could envisage them being decent again - and now they are but only on circuits with straight roads lol.
If there is one thing you can bet your bottom dollar on it's the fact that Mclaren WILL bounce back, they are unrivalled in their resources and to say they aren't passionate is absurd. May have lost their way recently, granted, and taken risky decisions that have backfired and not paid off ( look at 2013 )... most radical car on the grid, it's those decisions that can either make you obliterate the field or find yourself on a slippery slope, unfortunately for Mclaren it was to be the latter.
But the good news is that for a team of Mclaren's magnitude things can only get better, and I can't wait to see the rocket red tshirts grace the paddock once again, and for many many years.