I don't really get Big Bang

Asking questions like 'yes but what was before the big bang' or 'wasn't there nothing before the big bang' is outside of our current knowledge. You said there was nothing then there was the big bang. When was there nothing? Where did you get that from? The big bang theory says the universe was really small and incredibly hot - that's the opposite of nothing.

There was no 'before the big bang' because there was no 4th time dimension.

There is no outside of the universe, its just the universe.

There are no stars older than the universe (feel free to post link to info saying otherwise).

Some more recommended videos related to this:

phew well done, no homework tonight ;)
keyser bringing his A game, yo :scorchio:
 
Are you offended because i call it god, do you believe in god? Is that why you are offended? Because you sound like you are...I am sorry.

No the only thing that offends me really is narrow mindset and seemingly a refusal to accept a logical thought process to things we don't fully understand but there is working knowledge for within science/maths. I am actually from a religious background myself and feel I have first hand experience from both sides rather than just one, but I'll always side with what's logical and reasonable over what's fantastical. However we are here, we have the gift of being able to reason and observe and update our understanding of everything around us but it seems you have a specific way of arguing that doesn't gel with most other people.

Case in point you've been beating this same horse with countless people in this thread alone, and that's before we even recall previous threads over the years in various other topics!

Many others here have put things similarly as I've been saying since my last post here so hopefully one or more of those comments too will help you see things a bit more understandably.

Thread title is "I don't really get Big Bang" yet when people try to share some understanding with links, videos, thoughts..... No no no, that's illegal!
 
No the only thing that offends me really is narrow mindset and seemingly a refusal to accept a logical thought process to things we don't fully understand. I am actually from a religious background myself and feel I have first hand experience from both sides rather than just one, but I'll always side with what's logical and reasonable over what's fantastical. However we are here, we have the gift of being able to reason and observe and update our understanding of everything around us but it seems you have a specific way of arguing that doesn't gel with most other people.

Case in point you've been beating this same horse with countless people in this thread alone, and that's before we even recall previous threads over the years in various other topics!

Many others here have put things similarly as I've been saying since my last post here so hopefully one or more of those comments too will help you see things a bit more understandably.

Thread title is "I don't really get Big Bang" yet when people try to share some understanding with links, videos, thoughts..... No no no, that's illegal!

Lots of words, it's a label. I am open to the mindset that you can call it whatever you want.

You are too closed-minded not to let others call it whatever they want.

I am also totally open-minded to the possibility of whatever it happened before it, that is not even a question, something happened. I am just giving it a name, fart, god, bertie, my ass happened. Until someone figures it out, it will be named after that name.

Let it go, it's a label.

And where did I say it is illegal to share links? Show me, when did I say that? It would help if you can stop lying.

I am not even trying to understand big bang. (p.s. I have not watched any of the links/videos posted and have not quoted any of those people. It's all theory, all guess and all valid as each other so there is no right answer or wrong answer.)

And countless people with the same horse? it's just YOU, Jokester, and James Miller. That's not countless, that's 3.

The OP is more about the clash of laws of physics to something that breaks the laws of physics to someone who spends their life in physics. I am not trying to understand big bang, I don't know the answer (but i am also not trying to look for an answer). I just find the concept amusing, a bit like a priest who is a physicist. Hence the various labels I or everyone gives it. It's just a name, it's just a theory and all a guess.

You just can't let go that I want to say the word God, but perfectly fine if I use other nouns. Whatever i call it doesn't change what happened then. It's a name!

The OP is also meant to be light hearted, hence the Penny GIF, you are trying to turn it into something else. I suggest you be a little more open-minded and let people call something whatever they want. When you, yourself don't know the answer.

I mean if you figures it out, and it's named after you, I am happy to call it mrk.

mrk happened.

Perhaps deep down you are upset I call it god. The thing is that god has no relevance to me, because i am not religious, i don't assign god to be anything. I know the concept but god is just something. God in different cultures means different things and beings. God doesn't always translate to 1 being, 1 form, 1 deity. God in Shinto religion is the surroundings around us, the trees, the rock, the river, the mountain. in Shinto, Big Bang would be what happened as it is the elements, the surroundings, and in that religion to call god happened would be perfectly valid.

Something happened, mrk happened, god happened, whatever happened.

Labels, be more open minded.
 
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Humans created our language correct. Science says the universe was once small and hot. That doesn't mean: "there was once nothing so therefore there is a falsehood and all of science is meaningless". Science only goes as far as it knows, after that it speculates, wildly, but until it can be tied to an observation or experiment that's all it is - speculation. When you get taught Science be it GCSE, A level, degree and beyond, they don't have chapter 1 as metaphysics, I think you are referring to philosophy, which is also cool and interesting. But it isn't science.
 
Humans created our language correct. Science says the universe was once small and hot. That doesn't mean: "there was once nothing so therefore there is a falsehood and all of science is meaningless". Science only goes as far as it knows, after that it speculates, wildly, but until it can be tied to an observation or experiment that's all it is - speculation. When you get taught Science be it GCSE, A level, degree and beyond, they don't have chapter 1 as metaphysics, I think you are referring to philosophy, which is also cool and interesting. But it isn't science.

Exactly, speculate, wildly. Just as you said, widly.

I took a swing, a WILD swing with the word "god" (from someone who doesn't believe in god), but using god as a placeholder name. But that is an absolute no. Like No chance, Nope, get out of here, that's not science.

What happened to speculate wildly? (not that wildly!)
What happened to I just told you it's a placeholder word for something conclusive comes along? (nope, you can use any word but that word...it's not allowed!)
What happened to that i told you i don't believe in god, the deity? (Did I say that? may be like 5 times?)
What happened to me saying there is something before, and that can be anything and i am open minded to that anything? (Did I say that? may be like 7 times?)

Why be so picky about a 3 letter word when i have written hundreds?

And in the OP, i didn't actually said God created the universe, i said "akin to believing in god". People read that, and took that (MISTAKENLY) to meant God created the universe rather than Big Bang or something else. The key here is "akin to", the idea of believing 2 contradictions. It's not the same as God made the universe.

Was that not clear? I thought it was.

Although i must add, if one is to be open minded about anything can happen, why can't anything be god or the concept of an entity created the universe? If you close that avenue down then you wouldn't be open minded about the point of that "everything"? Surely if we take the concept that this is a simulation and someone, some race is advanced enough to have created this universe then that someone would technically fit a lot of culture's model version of god. Would it not?

Again, I don't believe in god...it's just a 3 letter word.

mrk happened, not god. To keep someone happy.
 
I thought it was that there was aways one surge of energy but before the big bang it was contained? And then eventually the energy became too much it exploded??
 
I'm pretty sure the arguement is that as we have not developed the capability yet, that would make us the last in the chain, which is therefore highly improbable.

I had a quick search and I think the hypothesis that I read about was Nick Bostrom's simulation argument, which is described on the Wikipedia page on simulation hypothesis:

In 2003, philosopher Nick Bostrom proposed a trilemma that he called "the simulation argument". Despite the name, Bostrom's "simulation argument" does not directly argue that we live in a simulation; instead, Bostrom's trilemma argues that one of three unlikely-seeming propositions is almost certainly true:

  1. "The fraction of human-level civilizations that reach a posthuman stage (that is, one capable of running high-fidelity ancestor simulations) is very close to zero", or
  2. "The fraction of posthuman civilizations that are interested in running simulations of their evolutionary history, or variations thereof, is very close to zero", or
  3. "The fraction of all people with our kind of experiences that are living in a simulation is very close to one."
The trilemma points out that a technologically mature "posthuman" civilization would have enormous computing power; if even a tiny percentage of them were to run "ancestor simulations" (that is, "high-fidelity" simulations of ancestral life that would be indistinguishable from reality to the simulated ancestor), the total number of simulated ancestors, or "Sims", in the universe (or multiverse, if it exists) would greatly exceed the total number of actual ancestors.

Bostrom goes on to use a type of anthropic reasoning to claim that, if the third proposition is the one of those three that is true, and almost all people with our kind of experiences live in simulations, then we are almost certainly living in a simulation.

Bostrom claims his argument goes beyond the classical ancient "skeptical hypothesis", claiming that "...we have interesting empirical reasons to believe that a certain disjunctive claim about the world is true", the third of the three disjunctive propositions being that we are almost certainly living in a simulation. Thus, Bostrom, and writers in agreement with Bostrom such as David Chalmers, argue there might be empirical reasons for the "simulation hypothesis", and that therefore the simulation hypothesis is not a skeptical hypothesis but rather a "metaphysical hypothesis". Bostrom states he personally sees no strong argument as to which of the three trilemma propositions is the true one: "If (1) is true, then we will almost certainly go extinct before reaching posthumanity. If (2) is true, then there must be a strong convergence among the courses of advanced civilizations so that virtually none contains any individuals who desire to run ancestor-simulations and are free to do so. If (3) is true, then we almost certainly live in a simulation. In the dark forest of our current ignorance, it seems sensible to apportion one's credence roughly evenly between (1), (2), and (3)... I note that people who hear about the simulation argument often react by saying, 'Yes, I accept the argument, and it is obvious that it is possibility #n that obtains.' But different people pick a different n. Some think it obvious that (1) is true, others that (2) is true, yet others that (3) is true."

As a corollary to the trilemma, Bostrom states that "Unless we are now living in a simulation, our descendants will almost certainly never run an ancestor-simulation."[7][8][9][10]

So not exactly how I remembered it.
 
No the only thing that offends me really is narrow mindset and seemingly a refusal to accept a logical thought process to things we don't fully understand but there is working knowledge for within science/maths. I am actually from a religious background myself and feel I have first hand experience from both sides rather than just one, but I'll always side with what's logical and reasonable over what's fantastical. However we are here, we have the gift of being able to reason and observe and update our understanding of everything around us but it seems you have a specific way of arguing that doesn't gel with most other people.
To be fair it's more narrow minded to say or suggest that before the big bang there wasn't or isn't 'god' (and i put that in quotes as it's a good a name as anything else to describe what existed before).

Could 'god' have created the circumstances, rules, or whatever that started the big bang, could he have created the recipe so to speak? Sure that's as possible as any of the other explanations. It's unlikely we'll ever know though as before the big bang time didn't exists so if it was a 'god' type of thing who set things up and pressed the start button only to sit back and watch then it would've existed outside of time, outside of our sphere of knowledge or understanding.
 
To be fair it's more narrow minded to say or suggest that before the big bang there wasn't or isn't 'god' (and i put that in quotes as it's a good a name as anything else to describe what existed before).

No, it's not "as good a name as any". God has a particular meaning: specifically, it suggests a supernatural being which is sentient and capable of deliberate action. It's an explanation that has been used throughout history, and like every other supernatural explanation, it's one with a 100% failure record whenever it's been put to the test. Not only that, but it's a truly extraordinarily complicated explanation without any justification.

Can I, or anyone else, definitively prove there wasn't a god that created the universe? Nope. But there's no reason to consider this outlandish form of explanation with a 100% track record of failure as an option, any more than anyone should put serious contemplation into whether the universe was created by Bugs Bunny farting.
 
No, it's not "as good a name as any". God has a particular meaning: specifically, it suggests a supernatural being which is sentient and capable of deliberate action. It's an explanation that has been used throughout history, and like every other supernatural explanation, it's one with a 100% failure record whenever it's been put to the test. Not only that, but it's a truly extraordinarily complicated explanation without any justification.

Can I, or anyone else, definitively prove there wasn't a god that created the universe? Nope. But there's no reason to consider this outlandish form of explanation with a 100% track record of failure as an option, any more than anyone should put serious contemplation into whether the universe was created by Bugs Bunny farting.
That's just an evidence of absence fallacy. Just because there's no evidence of a supernatural being doesn't mean one doesn't, or didn't, exist. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

A supernatural being creating the conditions for the big bang is just as plausible as any other explanation because knowing what happened before the big bang, before time even existed or outside of our reference for time, is currently beyond the scope of our knowledge.
 
If the universe is expanding from an explosion there must be a central point zero out there somewhere? If so where is it, has it been found?
How would you plot a course to find it though? You go up into space ( or down if you are in Australia ) Which direction do you go ?
 
That's just an evidence of absence fallacy. Just because there's no evidence of a supernatural being doesn't mean one doesn't, or didn't, exist. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

A supernatural being creating the conditions for the big bang is just as plausible as any other explanation because knowing what happened before the big bang, before time even existed or outside of our reference for time, is currently beyond the scope of our knowledge.

You've reminded me of that SouthPark episode where it took a dig at the History channel, Something along the lines of, There was no evidence on Aliens being present at the Thanksgiving dinner, but there also isn't any that they weren't any aliens there...
 
That's just an evidence of absence fallacy. Just because there's no evidence of a supernatural being doesn't mean one doesn't, or didn't, exist. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

No, it isn't. I didn't base any of my argument on absence of evidence.

A supernatural being creating the conditions for the big bang is just as plausible as any other explanation because knowing what happened before the big bang, before time even existed or outside of our reference for time, is currently beyond the scope of our knowledge.

No, it isn't. It's a mechanism of explaination with a 100% track record of failure that fails parsimony. That makes it a highly unlikely explanation, if indeed something so devoid of explanatory power really deserves the term "explanation".

There's a great deal we don't know in almost every area of life, people don't waste time on considering whether a supernatural being did it and ran away in other areas, why raise this silliness here?
 
If we allow the concept that anything can happen, why can’t the concept be something like another race that creates the universe? If such a race fits the Christianity culture version of God (I know someone is going to be picky about that, narrow minded to that degree to pick a single one)

Why is it okay to say “such race of species” but not use the word god, if their technology is so advance that they can do things that fits what we assume god is capable of.

Yet if I name the race Bertie, it’s fine.

Just to be clear, no one can deny or disprove there can be a species that is so advance that they may have created our universe. It’s all theories.

But people have a problem of the label I give it.

Bertie the alien is fine, God the alien isn’t.
 
If the universe is expanding from an explosion there must be a central point zero out there somewhere? If so where is it, has it been found?
How would you plot a course to find it though? You go up into space ( or down if you are in Australia ) Which direction do you go ?

Yeah there are issues with the name 'big bang' for that very reason. It's like a cake baking in an oven, all parts of the cake are expanding away from every other part.

"The Big Bang is a really bad term," said Paul Steinhardt, a cosmologist at Princeton. "The Big Stretch would capture the right idea." The mental image of an explosion causes all kinds of confusion, according to Steinhardt. It implies a central point, an expanding frontier, and a scene where light shrapnel flies faster than heavier chunks. But an expanding universe looks nothing like that, he said. There's no center, no edge, and galaxies large and small all slide apart in the same way (although more distant galaxies move away faster under the cosmologically recent influence of dark energy).
https://www.livescience.com/65700-big-bang-theory.html
 
No, it isn't. I didn't base any of my argument on absence of evidence.
Come off it, that's exactly what you did when you said "it's one with a 100% failure record whenever it's been put to the test. Not only that, but it's a truly extraordinarily complicated explanation without any justification" and "But there's no reason to consider this outlandish form of explanation with a 100% track record of failure as an option".

That's you saying the absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
No, it isn't. It's a mechanism of explaination with a 100% track record of failure that fails parsimony. That makes it a highly unlikely explanation, if indeed something so devoid of explanatory power really deserves the term "explanation".

There's a great deal we don't know in almost every area of life, people don't waste time on considering whether a supernatural being did it and ran away in other areas, why raise this silliness here?
You're even doing it in the post you're denying doing it in.

We're not talking about there being a great deal that we don't know in almost every area of life, i agree that explaining away something in the universe that we don't currently understand as 'god' did it would be incredulous, but we're not talking about every, or even any, area of life or even this universe. We're talking about events before time and this universe even existed.
 
Come off it, that's exactly what you did when you said "it's one with a 100% failure record whenever it's been put to the test. Not only that, but it's a truly extraordinarily complicated explanation without any justification" and "But there's no reason to consider this outlandish form of explanation with a 100% track record of failure as an option".

That's you saying the absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

No. I'm saying evidence of failure of a mode of explanation is evidence that it is a bad mode of explanation. That's not the same thing at all.

We're not talking about there being a great deal that we don't know in almost every area of life, i agree that explaining away something in the universe that we don't currently understand as 'god' did it would be incredulous, but we're not talking about every, or even any, area of life or even this universe. We're talking about events before time and this universe even existed.

And?
 
If we allow the concept that anything can happen, why can’t the concept be something like another race that creates the universe?

Why would we allow the concept that anything could happen? That doesn't seem sensible

Bertie the alien is fine, God the alien isn’t.

Bertie the alien would be a natural being who evolved in some other space, and created the universe through some natural means. God is a supernatural being, inherently unexplainable, who created the universe through supernatural means. That's why Bertie is more plausible although, honestly, IMO, not much of an explanation for anything since it simple pushes the question back to what created the universe that Bertie lives in, and not a terrible plausible explanation anyway.
 
Why would we allow the concept that anything could happen? That doesn't seem sensible



Bertie the alien would be a natural being who evolved in some other space, and created the universe through some natural means. God is a supernatural being, inherently unexplainable, who created the universe through supernatural means. That's why Bertie is more plausible although, honestly, IMO, not much of an explanation for anything since it simple pushes the question back to what created the universe that Bertie lives in, and not a terrible plausible explanation anyway.

You do realise you are trying to change the name I give something, but not the function of the “something”.

Its the same being, except the name I give it. It’s like I want to call my Dog, God. It’s still a dog.

What difference is Bertie the Alien vs God the Alien, same as what difference is max the Germany Shepard vs God the German Shepard?

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