I don't really get Big Bang

You do realise you are trying to change the name I give something, but not the function of the “something”.

Its the same being, except the name I give it. It’s like I want to call my Dog, God. It’s still a dog.

What difference is Bertie the Alien vs God the Alien, same as what difference is max the Germany Shepard vs God the German Shepard?

Labels.

There are two major differences:

1) Words mean things. "God" is not a meaningless noise or collection of letters that can be freely substituted for anything else. Labels matter. They matter a lot. Since the idea that every word is freely interchangeable with any other word is the core of your argument, the argument you're using to support your initial claim fails.
2) Thinking that the known evidence indicates that the universe was once far smaller than it is now and expanded over time (which it does) is not the same as having faith in the existence of a supernatural hyper-powerful being who plays some hugely important role in humanity. So your initial argument fails too.

Imagine someone accused you of abusing children. What you were actually doing was drinking a cup of tea, but that person decided to call "drinking a cup of tea" "abusing children". It's the same thing given a different name, right? Doesn't matter at all. No word means anything and all words can be freely substituted for any other words.

Labels.
 
Not labels, words. Words have meaning. If you want to use the word "god" but don't actually mean god, I'm simply left wondering why you are choosing to communicate poorly.

I knew you are going to say words have meaning…you are giving meaning to god, but unless you have forgotten already, I don’t believe in god, god have no meaning to me. You are giving it meaning, more than I give it.

I don’t know which times I’ve said “labels” you didn’t understand, it’s just a label. A placeholder. Just a label.

I’ve been saying for 2 days. Was that not clear?

Just a label.
 
I knew you are going to say words have meaning…you are giving meaning to god, but unless you have forgotten already, I don’t believe in god, god have no meaning to me. You are giving it meaning, more than I give it.

I also don't believe in any gods. But I'm aware that I don't control the whole of human language by decree. That level of power is beyond even that ascribed to gods! So I am aware that the word "god" does have a meaning.

I don’t know which times I’ve said “labels” you didn’t understand, it’s just a label. A placeholder. Just a label.

I’ve been saying for 2 days. Was that not clear?

Just a label.

Multiple people have been saying (as many times and for as long) that you are wrong when you decree that no word has any meaning. Also that your initial claim that accepting the existence of the existing evidence is "akin to believing in God" is wrong, but the focus has now shifted from your initial claim to the argument you're using to support it.
 
I knew you are going to say words have meaning…you are giving meaning to god, but unless you have forgotten already, I don’t believe in god, god have no meaning to me.

You realise that this statement requires that you do, in fact, understand the meaning of the word "god", otherwise how could you not believe in it?
 
You realise that this statement requires that you do, in fact, understand the meaning of the word "god", otherwise how could you not believe in it?

I understand the concept of god, but do you understand the concept of label?

I must have said it’s “just a label” about 20 times, just to be sure I did a search and it came up in 16 posts and I said it multiple times in multiple posts.

I’ve explained the concept, we have no disagreement of the concept, you just don’t want me to use the labelling.

So essentially you agree with other things but the label I give it. Again, a label. Behind the label, you agree.

And back to about 12pm yesterday, I said to Jokester you can call it whatever you want, why can’t I call it whatever I want?

And why pick on the 3 letter word when I’ve have written thousands by now.

you are still picking on this word…because you think it has meaning…it’s just a word, just a name, it has no meaning to me. God as an idea, yes, but not meaning.

But can call it Bertie or even Jack if it makes you happy. You got to understand that it’s just a label.

Btw, the sentences that you left out, I take that as you are in total agreement.
 
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I don't think I've read the 'God of the Gaps' argument so many times in one thread, along with someone using the word 'god' describing it exactly as common parlance and the religious community use it, but denying it means that...:cry:

I also love how the OP is questioning one scientific theory descrbed by physicists, by using something else described by the SAME physicists, who apparently haven't noticed that these thigns contradict eachother, and posts it on a computer forum instead of going and doing some research. As posted above, I recommend PBS SpaceTime on Youtube for all things physics related in a comic format by people with actual PHD's in this subject who know what they're talking about.

Summary - the Universe is expanding (fact) and current estimates but the age of it at around 14 billiob years based on numerous sources of evidence. Given the confidence of this evidence, the exact age will likely be narrowed down further (especially with the James Webb telescope) but will not be suddenly found to be billions of years out. Simply put, the entire standard model of physics would have to be rewritten, and it works too well for it to be THAT wrong. We can go back to about 10^-43 seconds after the initial moment of expansion (the Plank time) but beyond there our understanding breaks down, as the conditions simply didn't allow our laws of physcis to exist, and so beyond that the answer to everything is simply "we don't know". Any claim to knowlege at this point or earlier is simply being dishonest.

The funniest part about people calling the Big Bang an explosion is that it wasn't even meant to be a serious term - the astronomenr Fred Hoyle favoured the steady state hypothesis of the universe always existing and attempted to make fun of the expansion hypothesis by calling it a 'big bang', a name which then stuck as it was proven to be accurate. The idea that there was 'nothing', and then it exploded, makes me chuckle but completely misses the entire concept. It weas simply expansion from an incredibly dense point, more than that we do not know.

Personally I like the idea of the Multiverse, where infinite universes spontaneously come into existance with random settings for the various constants that exist in ours, and most of them instantly failing due to not being stable. Some, like ours, have combinations that work and so ours exists in the condition we observe today. Absoluytely no way to prove any of it, and I doubt there ever will be, but it's a neat solution which appeals to me as a lay-person. No idea where the multiverse came from either...

I'll leave one of my favourite videos from Veritasium here, showing how we used a supernova who's light followed different and predicatable paths to prove so many of our ideas right.

 
Follow The Science.

this is the worst thing ever posted. space and science is at best guess work. many theories later on even if hundreds of years later get proven false. the truth is we have no way of knowing or even understanding what happened yet. we are to basic and make up theories to suit our own interlect.
 
I don't think I've read the 'God of the Gaps' argument so many times in one thread, along with someone using the word 'god' describing it exactly as common parlance and the religious community use it, but denying it means that...:cry:

I also love how the OP is questioning one scientific theory descrbed by physicists, by using something else described by the SAME physicists, who apparently haven't noticed that these thigns contradict eachother, and posts it on a computer forum instead of going and doing some research. As posted above, I recommend PBS SpaceTime on Youtube for all things physics related in a comic format by people with actual PHD's in this subject who know what they're talking about.

Summary - the Universe is expanding (fact) and current estimates but the age of it at around 14 billiob years based on numerous sources of evidence. Given the confidence of this evidence, the exact age will likely be narrowed down further (especially with the James Webb telescope) but will not be suddenly found to be billions of years out. Simply put, the entire standard model of physics would have to be rewritten, and it works too well for it to be THAT wrong. We can go back to about 10^-43 seconds after the initial moment of expansion (the Plank time) but beyond there our understanding breaks down, as the conditions simply didn't allow our laws of physcis to exist, and so beyond that the answer to everything is simply "we don't know". Any claim to knowlege at this point or earlier is simply being dishonest.

The funniest part about people calling the Big Bang an explosion is that it wasn't even meant to be a serious term - the astronomenr Fred Hoyle favoured the steady state hypothesis of the universe always existing and attempted to make fun of the expansion hypothesis by calling it a 'big bang', a name which then stuck as it was proven to be accurate. The idea that there was 'nothing', and then it exploded, makes me chuckle but completely misses the entire concept. It weas simply expansion from an incredibly dense point, more than that we do not know.

Personally I like the idea of the Multiverse, where infinite universes spontaneously come into existance with random settings for the various constants that exist in ours, and most of them instantly failing due to not being stable. Some, like ours, have combinations that work and so ours exists in the condition we observe today. Absoluytely no way to prove any of it, and I doubt there ever will be, but it's a neat solution which appeals to me as a lay-person. No idea where the multiverse came from either...

I'll leave one of my favourite videos from Veritasium here, showing how we used a supernova who's light followed different and predicatable paths to prove so many of our ideas right.


I questioned one scientific theory? I thought i said they are all valid, I’m open minded to all theories. Which one did I question? Could you point me to the post where I did that please?

Every single possibility is as equal to another to me, because for the pure fact that nobody knows the answer. I put “there could be a god” right up there with that video (not watched) in terms of probability as I am open minded of all theories. Despite I don’t believe in god I am still open minded to the possibility of it.

If that’s not open minded, what is?
 
this is the worst thing ever posted. space and science is at best guess work. many theories later on even if hundreds of years later get proven false. the truth is we have no way of knowing or even understanding what happened yet. we to basic and make up theories to suit our own interlect.

No. Science by design relies on evidence with hypothesis and conclusions drawn from this, peer reviued, published, and then accepted by the community. If someone has something wrongm then the first people to point it out are OTHER SCIENTISTS. Once the eivdence for a particular hypothsis and body of knowlege becomes so large it is incontravertabile, it becomes scientific theory. We didn't get to the moon or take a photo of a Black Hole through 'guesswork'.
 
I questioned one scientific theory? I thought i said they are all valid, I’m open minded to all theories? Which one did I question?

Every single possibility is as equal to another to me, because for the pure fact that nobody knows the answer. I put “there could be a god” right up there with that video (not watched) in terms of probability as I am open minded of all theories.

If that’s not open minded, what is?

You aren't using the word 'theory' in the correct context. Gravity is also a theory - do you believe in that? If there is a 'god' outside of our universe we have no way of knowing, and it is of no interest. The events and scientific facts we describe INSIDE this universe are what matter, and many of those are proven beyond any doubt - these are built into the body of scientific theory. Your original post questioned the big bang because of the laws of thermodynamics, as if the 1) have anything to do with eachother, and 2) managed to slip under the radar of the entire scientific community. If you're that open minded, watch the videos and do some research to see why the theories areaccepted by mainstream science.

Be open minded, I applaud that. Just not so open that your brain falls out.
 
No. Science by design relies on evidence with hypothesis and conclusions drawn from this, peer reviued, published, and then accepted by the community. If someone has something wrongm then the first people to point it out are OTHER SCIENTISTS. Once the eivdence for a particular hypothsis and body of knowlege becomes so large it is incontravertabile, it becomes scientific theory. We didn't get to the moon or take a photo of a Black Hole through 'guesswork'.

well no tbh. why ? hawkins or eg people this that other and many people specualte workings could be wrong or not agreed apon. albert einstein same. it all comes down to whats digested took as gospel or is " correct " and taught. then people just wander down that route as if its all true. no one knows. simple. whos proven big bang and shown it ? no one . we just arent clever enough to even understand yet. im more excited by the thinking of how many years it takes us as a human colony to break it down and use it.
 
well no tbh. why ? hawkins or eg people this that other and many people specualte workings could be wrong or not agreed apon. albert einstein same. it all comes down to whats digested took as gospel or is " correct " and taught. then people just wander down that route as if its all true. no one knows. simple. whos proven big bang and shown it ? no one . we just arent clever enough to even understand yet. im more excited by the thinking of how many years it takes us as a human colony to break it down and use it.

The Big Bang has been proven - if you havne't done the reading to know why then that's on you. Are there details we are still working out? Of course - there's always new things to learn and a better understanding to acquire, but the Big Bang Theory describing the inflationary expansion of the early universe is accurate, becuase the evidence we found brought us to that conclusion. Science starts with the evidence and follows it to the conclusion - that's how we learn things. Nothing is taken as 'gospel' - that's what religion does.
 
You aren't using the word 'theory' in the correct context. Gravity is also a theory - do you believe in that? If there is a 'god' outside of our universe we have no way of knowing, and it is of no interest. The events and scientific facts we describe INSIDE this universe are what matter, and many of those are proven beyond any doubt - these are built into the body of scientific theory. Your original post questioned the big bang because of the laws of thermodynamics, as if the 1) have anything to do with eachother, and 2) managed to slip under the radar of the entire scientific community. If you're that open minded, watch the videos and do some research to see why the theories areaccepted by mainstream science.

Be open minded, I applaud that. Just not so open that your brain falls out.

Actually, my OP wasn’t really about the Big Bang, this isn’t a topic a forum can answer. Or a video from YouTube. I was more interested in the idea of a physicist following the laws of thermodynamics and accept Big Bang together, much like the idea of a Jehovah witness practicing modern medicine. Hence the Penny Gif.

what comes before the “Big Bang” or whatever label we put on it, again, labels, are all a guess. Nobody knows. It could be mrk/jack/god! Who knows?!

but the OP is just about the idea of a physicist and the contradiction thermodynamics. Not really what was before the Big Bang. People have tried to explain but I’m not really interested honestly.

btw, what theory did I question? Could you tell me?
 
The Big Bang has been proven - if you havne't done the reading to know why then that's on you. Are there details we are still working out? Of course - there's always new things to learn and a better understanding to acquire, but the Big Bang Theory describing the inflationary expansion of the early universe is accurate, becuase the evidence we found brought us to that conclusion. Science starts with the evidence and follows it to the conclusion - that's how we learn things. Nothing is taken as 'gospel' - that's what religion does.

the science you talk about is basically the same as religion. they can put up a equation on a black board even make a 3d video pixar style. the real truth is though it cant be shown to be true. so it is just the same as jesus christ. unprovable.
 
Isn't the Big Bang the complete opposite? Nothing, then massive energy, and then everything in the universe.

This part technically questons the big bang theory, becuase it doesn't describe it correctly. The theory simply states that the universe was incredibly dense and hot, possibly to the point of being a singularity, before undergoing cosmic inflation and expansion which is ongoing today. It doesn't say there was nothing, because we simply can't know that. As you say, we don't know what came before that point, or if 'before' is even a term that can be used if time came into existence as a dimension at the point of initial expansion.

There is no contradiciton between thermodynamics and the big bang theory - all the energy was there at the initial point, and it's still all here now in one form or another.

We agree that beyond that initial point, we can't know anything, and it may well stay that way for a long time, unless we can build some seriously large particle accelerators...
 
the science you talk about is basically the same as religion. they can put up a equation on a black board even make a 3d video pixar style. the real truth is though it cant be shown to be true. so it is just the same as jesus christ. unprovable.

Scientific theory IS proveable - that's the entire point. That is why it's accepted in the first place. At this point youre just trolling, but I do agree with you about the Cosmic Jewish Zombie.
 
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