I don't understand Sony!

Tommy B · 18 Sep 2006 at 21:37

OK. How on earth do they expect Blu-Ray to be successful when the players cost prices in the £1000 region?

Is this genuinely what it costs to produce these players, or do these cretins still think the "because it's new we can rip you off" strategy still works? This is perhaps more understandable in a monopoly situation, but when you're competing against something as huge as HD-DVD, it's not really a great idea. I don't know the predicted prices on the HD-DVD players, but I sincerely hope they are more affordable!

Sony used to be such a fantastic company, oozing with quality as it were, but they've fallen victim to their own arrogance. The fact that PS3 won't be available in Europe for Xmas 2006 honestly makes me laugh. They've just lost most of their target customers (in the short term!)

Your thoughts?

tom_nieto · 18 Sep 2006 at 21:50

The first generation of DVD players were hardly cheap, and these first players are squarely aimed at the enthusiast market. When you've spend £5k or more on an awesome projector, you might as well spend £1k on the best possible source. Admittedly with HD-DVD players being much cheaper, you could quite easily buy one of those instead.

The PS3 is just an overpriced farce anyway. Apparently the delay is due to difficulty sourcing a single diode in sufficient quantity. The price is outrageous considering the Nintendo Wii will cost <£150 and introduce a whole new aspect to gaming rather than just awesome graphics, which I fully believe the Wii will have too. MS have a very handy head start in the HD gaming business, and unless the PS3 has some incredible games on offer it will struggle.

Dup · 18 Sep 2006 at 21:50

They've always been a proprietary monopolising hype generating company, always. Just that back in the day they had the quality to back it up. Better competition means they're losing money and having to manufacutre more cheaply, so in effect, Sony haven't got any more dominance in the market unless you really are blinded by brands.

Plus, All the major publishers are supporting Blu-Ray as on paper and in tests it is the better format, and also cheaper. Plus Microsoft will be selling their HD add-on at about £200.

News About the Publishers

9designs2 · 18 Sep 2006 at 22:46

Tommy B said:
OK. How on earth do they expect Blu-Ray to be successful when the players cost prices in the £1000 region?

Your thoughts?

I don't consider that to be expensive, and they will sell truck loads at that price.... If you consider a good quality standard DVD player of the Denon or Arcam level will cost between 500-1000 anyway... If the new Blue Ray players can do all these players do, and then add Hi Def picture quality etc... it's good value...... I assume they will be CD/SACD/DVD and Blue Ray capable.... You can pay much much more for current "universal" players.

The issue will be the price against HD-DVD, I guess the "software" will help decide the outcome.

Sinizterguy · 18 Sep 2006 at 23:26

Once the formats are more widely accepted, the prices will drop.

DVD players at first were quite expensive and now you can get them for 20£. The new generation stuff wont drop that low, but will come well into the affordable range in a little while.

Raider · 19 Sep 2006 at 10:16

Well I can tell you the launch prices of the Toshiba HD-E1 player will be around £449 RRP. So you should be able to buy it online for around £400.
That's at least half the price of the cheapest Blu-Ray player. I'm not sure why Blu-Ray machines are so expensive either... the new Panasonic player uses a 5 1/4" PC-drive inside it just like the Tosh does (it has an NEC HD-DVD PC drive).

The high prices for Blu-Ray are just one of the problems for the Sony-led consortium. I think they're gambling big style on the PS3 putting Blu-Ray drives in millions of homes. But that theory has a few problems:

1) Only the most expensive PS3 has an HDMI socket
2) Even that model doesn't come with an HDMI cable
3) 95% of people that buy a PS3 will be quite happy to use there current dvd player and just use the PS3 for games.

I really can't tell how the format war will go over the next 2 years. I bought a HD-DVD player because of the low price and the fantastic quality that HD-DVD discs are delivering NOW (VC-1 encoded dual layer HD-DVDs as opposed to crappy MPEG2 encoded single layer Blu-Rays). So as I see it:

HD-DVD:
+ Cheaper players
+ Awesome quality available right now
+ Region Free for HD-DVD (BIG Plus)

Blu-Ray:
+ Best studio support (but not by much)

The studio support thing is over-exagerated, as only a couple of the big studios are currently Blu-Ray only. And because HD-DVD is region free many films that are Blu-Ray only in the US (Terminator 2 for example), will be available on HD-DVD in Europe where distribution studios are different.

devilkazuya · 19 Sep 2006 at 17:31

shame that they don't have a different style of case for the new format. I hate the current casing for dvd's / games. Those basic plastic thin cases, means that as a collection, it can never look good on a shelf.

VHS collections look so nice because the case is big and the border is thick so you get a nice chunky area for the text/image on the side when it is shelved. If they are going to make us pay so much for discs, they could at least make it worth our while in the packaging. Most PC games used to have big card boxes too which was great.

Raider · 19 Sep 2006 at 17:37

devilkazuya said:
shame that they don't have a different style of case for the new format. I hate the current casing for dvd's / games. Those basic plastic thin cases, means that as a collection, it can never look good on a shelf.

VHS collections look so nice because the case is big and the border is thick so you get a nice chunky area for the text/image on the side when it is shelved. If they are going to make us pay so much for discs, they could at least make it worth our while in the packaging. Most PC games used to have big card boxes too which was great.

I have bad news for you... HD-DVD cases are even smaller. They're about 25% smaller all round, and have slightly rounded edges.

VHS cases weren't all that. They were just big and plasticy. Now Laser Discs, that's where it was at :cool:

I used to love the old style of PC game boxes too. I loved opening that box and sniffing through the manual. I have 3 boxes in the loft, full of old 3.5" / CD-Rom boxes. Maybe i'll take 'em out for a sniff at the weekend

Manlove is my forte · 19 Sep 2006 at 17:44

devilkazuya said:
shame that they don't have a different style of case for the new format. I hate the current casing for dvd's / games. Those basic plastic thin cases, means that as a collection, it can never look good on a shelf.

VHS collections look so nice because the case is big and the border is thick so you get a nice chunky area for the text/image on the side when it is shelved. If they are going to make us pay so much for discs, they could at least make it worth our while in the packaging. Most PC games used to have big card boxes too which was great.

Are you mad?
I'd personally prefer the boxes to get thiner. I hated the big VHS boxes that took up way too much room. THe Game boxes were even worse there was no need for all that empty space.

Personally I worry that sony has dug itself too deap a grave to dig its way out. In Europe at least
.

devilkazuya · 19 Sep 2006 at 18:04

Kronologic said:
Are you mad?
I'd personally prefer the boxes to get thiner. I hated the big VHS boxes that took up way too much room. THe Game boxes were even worse there was no need for all that empty space.

Personally I worry that sony has dug itself too deap a grave to dig its way out. In Europe at least
.

You miss my point. I am not speaking from a convenience point of view, i am speaking from an aesthetic point of view, and as someone who appreciates a collection of anything.

Energize · 19 Sep 2006 at 18:51

tom_nieto said:
The PS3 is just an overpriced farce anyway. Apparently the delay is due to difficulty sourcing a single diode in sufficient quantity. The price is outrageous considering the Nintendo Wii will cost <£150

Actually it costs more than £150.

The wii doesn't play any hd media or even play hd games you can't expect the price to of the ps3 to be close to the wii.

Mr Latte · 19 Sep 2006 at 23:38

Have to laugh at the whole hype surrounding the PS3 and the complete farce its now become. Trying to force people into Blu Ray with PS3 has been a mistake...

All this 1080p hype when it will take at least another 1-2 years before 1080p screens even get close to being a mainstream price and as reported very few games will even use the additional resolution, it dont mean jack shhh to most console or PS2 fans.

Sony are in real bother and not just with Blu Ray but all these manufacturing problems, recently Apple notebooks and now also toshiba notebook batteries, its going to cost them millions, not what their wanting on their plate at the moment.

Imho HD-DVD will win the war, history shows that the cheapest is always the most supported format and you can bet FOX etc will come running to support it when sales of HD DVD continue to outsell Blu Ray. The other mess is this problem that studios will contine to use the inferior MPEG II on certain titles, this is crazy, your buying a more expensive format with many titles that will look worse than the rival format. Its not for going away overnight as mentioned at the Berlin show "back catalouge and new" will continue to be mixed MPEG II and VC1 (if thats what its called) encoding.

Thanks Sony so even the disc production is confusing too.

Toshiba have two UK HD DVD models appearing, the higher end model will output 1080p as its main additional feature and not be restricted to 1080i.

FrankJH · 20 Sep 2006 at 06:03

the ps3 is a completely seperate issue now - as blu ray will have been in its second generation by the time of its European release and now that newer versions of blu-ray are using comparable decoding techniques the picture quality is about the same

Once combined pc drives compatable with both types of disc are on the market which are about to be released, I think cheaper full units will start arriving

Mr Latte · 20 Sep 2006 at 10:12

FrankJH said:
the ps3 is a completely seperate issue now - as blu ray will have been in its second generation by the time of its European release and now that newer versions of blu-ray are using comparable decoding techniques the picture quality is about the same

Once combined pc drives compatable with both types of disc are on the market which are about to be released, I think cheaper full units will start arriving

You miss the point it was even announced at the recent Berlin Trade show that Sony and the backing studios all see the PS3 as the reason Blu Ray will take off, this is were the majority of players will arise from, particulary as it was also meant to be the cheapest form of equipment to play the movies.

MPEG II and VC1 will co-exist for quite sometime, Disney, Fox etc will have mixed releases in both.

For PCs apart from purchasing a new one your gonna need a DVI/HDMI out GFX a HDMI or DVI-HDMI cable, Blu Ray drive and a HDCP compatible monitor/display.

Even the early released Pioneer £500 drive wont play movies aparently and with the shortage of diodes i cant see PC drives in a major abundance anytime soon, the shortage of components, manufacturing problems and demand all add to increased prices.

Manlove is my forte · 20 Sep 2006 at 11:09

devilkazuya said:
You miss my point. I am not speaking from a convenience point of view, i am speaking from an aesthetic point of view, and as someone who appreciates a collection of anything.

So was I, as someone who likes to store his movies and games without them dominating the room or dictating the furnature I need to buy to store them.

I find Videos (and esspecially old game boxes as they never conformed to a set size) and eyesore.

Edit:
I guess I should add something to the real topic in this thread

Originally I was 100% behind Blu-ray. I was thinking 50gb, you could put an increadable HD film on that with a fairly lossless sound track and still have room to spare.

However over the months I have seen Sony miss manage, well, everything. Which has lead me to suspect that the BD players will be in short supply globally and seeing as they are using older less effective codecs on their films, which look inferior to the compatition. Everything is more expencive.

I think HD will win.

Energize · 20 Sep 2006 at 14:05

Even though the ps3 is expensive it's a fair bit cheaper than a hd-dvd player is so blu-ray will in fact be cheaper for the consumer.

Raikiri · 20 Sep 2006 at 14:12

The HD-DVD add on drive for the 360 has been announced at around £90 in Japan (supposedly) making the core 360 + the drive less than £300. So cheaper than Blu-Ray. Plus the 1080p patch that has been announced.

pinkaardvark · 20 Sep 2006 at 14:12

Energize said:
Even though the ps3 is expensive it's a fair bit cheaper than a hd-dvd player is so blu-ray will in fact be cheaper for the consumer.

Except the 360 + HD-DVD add on will likely be cheaper again meaning bluray is overpriced for the consumer.

Energize · 20 Sep 2006 at 14:17

pinkaardvark said:
Except the 360 + HD-DVD add on will likely be cheaper again meaning bluray is overpriced for the consumer.

Its more expensive, and doesn't support hdcp or even hdmi. The uk price for the drive was £200.

sven256 · 20 Sep 2006 at 14:46

Energize said:
Its more expensive, and doesn't support hdcp or even hdmi. The uk price for the drive was £200.

They have just announced that in japan it will be 19.800 which is just over £90.
so may not be as high as that if not it will drop in price quick.
Also it will support 1080p same with xbox games as from around december.
And it will do hdmi when the leed is out in december ish.

bah missed the post above with the price