Icecold's mobility thread

Deception said:
Here you go, manage to get one this morning.

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I'll give you some more feedback later, but can you video what happens when you point both of your feet almost straight ahead, keeping everything else the same? Both angles, if you can.

Really not too bad at all though, just a few easy fixes.
 
Good stuff!

I'll reserve comments until then, because that will be a better foot position to build from. The distance between your feet isn't necessarily too big.
 
Chaps, we need to make sure that advice is carefully administered :)


Deception,

Great, that's exposed some pretty common tight areas and movement faults. Aside from everything else, are you aware of being flat footed? I can't tell for certain from the video, but it looks like you might be...

Anyway, on to the squats. I started writing this for you, but I've turned it into a more general guide to better squatting. I'll probably edit this a few times!



From the ground up:

1) Fix your feet at around 10 degrees of turn out.

2) Bring your feet 2" closer together.

3) Focus on getting your knees out, the wider the better. This should be a concious effort for the entire rep.

4) Aim to sink your hip crease below your knee (you're slightly above in those).

5) Be more active and have more tension in your core and glutes. This should make your lower back stiffer and reduce rounding. Active glutes (particularly glute medius, on the side) both facilitates a better hip/femur (and by extension knees out) relationship thus reducing lower back rounding by creating more "space" to descend into, and also makes for a stronger squat. Make sure your lock out fully and bring your hips through.

6) Try to maintain your chest up position, your spine shouldn't be undergoing any flexion or extension throughout the lift.

7) Ensure the bar is in a stable position, it shouldn't be rolling up or down your back.


Some of those things will either be difficult to achieve or will make things look or feel worse at first, so here's what you need to do for each step:

1) Easy to actually do, but will probably cause problems. Your knees need to travel radially out from midline, and if you're missing healthy range in your ankle the only place your knees (and therefore knees) can go is inside the plane set by your heal/big toe, collapsing the foot. In general, you should test this and see how your feet/ankles behave and ensure that, while your feet stay parallel and active and flat (in terms of weight distribution), your knees can diagonally out at around 40 degrees as far forwards as the line of your big toe.

To fix any limitations, work through this stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBt5F2mMUtU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkepajNHiDw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLj_VkfQzJI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKewdExgRh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gwgm3s2EQ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCFlfgCqpK8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMQL7_HNV_Y

2) Just do it

3)

PAUSE!

More to come (mostly from the previous squat post), but I'll add to this later.
 
LiE said:
No worries, anything particular a miss with my advice?
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No not as such, but the key to fixing Deceptions squat is not just in consciously trying to push his knees out ;)
Delvis said:
Probably more aimed at me :p

I try and help where I can with what I know / have been told, so point out anything that's obviously wrong :)
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I know you're trying to pass on what you've learnt to be helpful, and that's great. But you've yet to learn the various nuances of it all, and it would be a shame for good intention to lead to bad advice.

No offence intended to anyone, I was in a hurry and was trying to be diplomatic. I absolutely do not want to discourage anyone's participation in this thread!
duvet77 said:
Ice, can you give us your opinion please.

I've been doing rehab stuff a bit willy nilly but need to give it more structure. My basic problems are APT and the associated tightness/weaknesses, and kyphosis and internally rotated shoulders.

My plan is increase volume on back/external rotators and all but stop training chest/internal rotators (i can't do much chest anyway because one of my shoulders is giving me jip at the minute). Stretch lats, chest etc and all the usual culprits for the ATP. I also want to vastly increase the amount of core work I do; my abs are v. weak because I do bugger all ab work. :o

Whats a reasonable amount of work to do for the core. I was thinking 3 days per week with 3 exercises for core. Also what are you top picks for core. So far I'm doing ab wheel rollouts, palloff press and planks. I need to kiss goodbye to my back pain and get fit enough to squat and deadlift again.

Also, do you think it's possibly to do too much for the external rotators, baring in mind I'm trying to activate and strengthen as opposed to blast the crap out of them! Should I still be having a days rest or can I do some band work at home everyday, even on days I've trained back/rear delts in the gym. Also if you have any recommended exercises... I currently have facepulls, reverse flyes, prone ys, prone shrugs, rotations plus my usually back stuff (mainly rowing moves and straight arm pulldown).

Any feedback greatly appreciated. :)
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It's certainly possible to over-do external rotator work. The way I do it these days is to pair it up with any days I stretch my pecs or anterior shoulder (internal rotation stretches), or any soft tissue work to those areas (you didn't mention doing this, make sure you are!). This means you can take up the new slack you've stretched out/soft-tissue-ified (??) with external rotation rather than let it be passively sucked back in by your pecs and aterior tissues. I would do this a maximum of three times a week, but the most important thing is to listen to your body.

I would do ab work 2 times a week to really annihilate it, any more and you might interfere with your other gym/whatever work. Those are great choices, but I would also add leg/knee raises and reverse crunches.


An important factor for those dealing with APT is strengthening the correct muscles. Have a read of this:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...formance_repair/core_training_for_smart_folks

I now emphasise external oblique activation on all my core work.
 
For now, just go as deep as you can without rounding your back, but don't increase the weight to compensate for the fact that this is easier. You should have it all fixed in a couple of weeks.
 
Syla5 said:
Need some help, my right shoulder from about the top of my back following the curve of my shoulder blade feels sore. It's a cross between doms and that stiff feeling from having slept funny. I stretch regularly but do limited soft tissue work in this area due to a lack of tools, I want to avoid this turning in to an injury, and I would prefer it not to hamper progress.

What's the best thing I could do to help this recover?
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Can't really tell what you're describing (can you find a picture?), but assuming it's fairly minor the best thing for it would be some soft tissue work. You might have to get creative with tools though, or just get someone to jab a handle of some sort in the area.
Deception said:
I've even taped 2 feet markers to floor for squats, so I get used to the same stance as it feels comfortable now, even if it wide (cant push knee's out if feet placement is too less than shoulder width).
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Hmm, that's ok for now but you should work on being able to get a nice looking squat with a narrower stance too. Your stance should be dictated by what's strongest, not temporary soft tissue limitations.
 
duvet77 said:
Cheers for that Ice.
I do do foam rolling and hockeyball rolling but I've haven't figured out the best way to roll my pecs yet. Have you got any tips?
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There is a video on one of the pages...

Walls and their corners become very useful.
RobSmith said:
This is some really fantastic stuff Ice, albeit a lot to take in. That mwod guy however speaks incredibly fast and uses terminology that I cannot comprehend, nonetheless you're able to get the jist of it.

I might throw up a video of my squat form sometime soon.

Thanks for taking the time to put it together man :)
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Do it!

It's worth taking the time to learn some of what he's talking about, but yes he is quite full on.

Deception said:
Yea, its great stuff. Hips have never been so sore from all the mobility work! :D
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reiyushin said:
Loving the thread, will be sifting through it later to try and make my shoulders kimura/armericana proof :)
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:cool:
 
There are a couple of places to get them from. They will be more or less the same products so just buy the cheapest.

Green is the best for most stretching and joint manipulation, but the lighter ones have their uses too.
 
sigma,

Are they always stiff? Or is it induced by a particular movement?


Delvis,


Tilt in which direction?

Lower back tightness could be caused by many things; poor lower anterior core control/strength, short hamstrings, tight glutes, tight anterior hip tissues (hip flexors, quads, etc.)...

Can you be more specific?
 
Hold on, you're talking about anterior pelvic tilt inducing lower back pain?

I explained this in your thread, it's the things I mentioned above. Probably a lack of anterior core strength and activation combined with a tight anterior hip.

For the record, short hamstrings can cause rounding in the lower back as they pull the hips under when you hinge at the hip. If you're loading your back at this point, this could lead to pain.
 
Skillmister said:
Is fixing APT likely to make my back weaker for a bit until it starts getting used to being fixed and begins to strengthen?
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Yes, that's exactly what I found.

It's a case of the muscles in your back having to learn how to work properly. They will be very weak initially, so give them time (like you are!). You do need to do something though, some of the videos in Pate's thread are useful here. If your ankle is up to it, light goblet squats would be good as long as you don't butt wink at all.


Delvis, good anterior core work includes planks, leg raises, and this stuff:

http://www.ericcressey.com/lumbar-flexion-strength-training-programs-reverse-crunch
 
birdysaver said:
Hi icecold was just wondering if you can suggest anything else to aid some lateral collateral ligament - the outside ligament that connects the hamstring to back of knee . So far i have been following some of the suggested exercises on mobilitywod that place a ball in the join and pull the leg in and manipulate it. I have also been rolling it out to. Just become slightly concious of it while squatting as i can feel it on the way down, it is more in my left dominant leg then right one. If you have any advice/ different exercise it will be greatly appreciated if not no worries! Thanks
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I can't really offer any additional advice there, sorry.

Are you sure your squat form is good?
Deception said:
Just a little update:

Should get band today or tomorrow, so will get stuck in to ankle mobility. I've been destroying the bottom of my feet to help get the arch back and gradually, im able to arch the bottom of my feet to get a better platform for squats and its really helping.

The ball work around the ankle dont half hurt though! haha, but really seeing improvements so far, so thanks a lot Ice :)
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Good stuff!

I've written the rest of the squatting mobilisations, so I'll post that in the next day or so.
Delvis said:
Cheers matey.

Going to get on the planks and work up slowly while seeing a physio. I'll start with planks then work on to ball work etc once im getting back in to the swing of things.

Thanks for the link as well :)

EDIT: Just reading through it...Can you elaborate on the following?



B is what concerns me, considering im an office boy :p
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He's saying to avoid all movement, particularly loaded movement at end range (end range being... the end of your range of motion) that involves forward rounding of the lower back.

The reverse crunches are ok because you aren't at end range and the load is low, meaning that there is less force in dangerous directions.

Sitting badly, while involving low loads, will most likely see you resting on the end range of your tissues.

The simple solution to your seating problem is to sit correctly :p

This is a prime example of the principal of there being no days off.
 
Begbie said:
Icecold/anyone,

Keep getting a damn clicking noise on my right shoulder, also in a bit of pain now and then especially after a shoulder workout. I do plan on seeing a physio, but out of the UK at the moment for another 6 weeks or so.

Any good movements I can do to try and sort it out? I can't see it being my form, but then I don't have a spotter and its not always to see how my form is using only mirrors.

Thanks much

edit;

SO I watched this

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2012/02/daily-prog-shoulder-internal-rotation-13.html

The first one is unpracticable, but the second two look good. Will need to buy a ball and some bands
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Clicking is sometimes benign, but it can also be a sign that your shoulder (including your scapula) is out of position.

For some people, simply doing more pulling movements isn't enough (although it should be your first port of call, provided you're not in serious pain). Not only might your pecs/anterior tissues and internal rotators be tight, be the various muscle of your back might not be working properly.

Strength Training Programs: Are Pull-ups THAT Essential? | Eric Cressey | High Performance Training, Personal Training

As you will read, it's not all about pullups! Try some of the exercises from that article, as well as the usual pec stretches, shoulder dislocations and pulling exercises.

[Damien];21535381 said:
snip!
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Good advice!

Delvis said:
Started more direct Ab / core work now, doing this for a few weeks to see how things go.

Also going to start opening up my hips and hams more I think
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Good stuff, what are you doing and how are you finding it?

RobSmith said:
Hip flexor work is as the guy in mobwod said, torture!

But so worth it! Massively helped me with my squats.

Only problem I have now is that I have a slight imbalance in my flexibility between my right and left. I've been watching myself when squatting and find myself coming up on one side faster than the other and looking a bit "wobbley". There is a good mobwod video i watched on addressing the problem but can't for the life of me remember which one.
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Just FYI, it might not be a flexibility problem, it might be that certain muscles (glute med., VMO, etc.) fire better on one side. Can't say without seeing you move though :)
 
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