If the charges aren't dropped....

There's no need for corporal punishment in my eyes - kids hate hypocrites, so you can imagine the fuss for someone getting caned for fighting. The cane can remain firmly locked away as far as I'm concerned.

Besides, we already have a situation whereby a pupil takes a telling off and then rings their parent(s) to complain... who promptly come to school to demand an explanation for their child's disciplining. I can see where it would go should a pupil be caned - we'd need security guards on site stopping angry dads with baseball bats!

What we need a shift in culture for pupils to take ownership of their behaviour and for parents to support the school fully. Parents can and should ask questions when their child is disciplined, obviously, but a lot will outright deny any wrong doing from their child:

'We saw your child smoking'
'well you must be wrong because he doesn't'
'he was'
'wasn't'
'here's the footage'
'oh'.

Conversation should have ended much earlier, but that's now typical.

Again, in no way justifies Peter's reaction.
 
i feel great sympathy for him, teaching people of a secondary school age would be something i could only describe as paid torture. my class when i was going through secondary school caused the breakdown of at least 3 teachers if not more and any one of those could have gone of the handle more than they did, the most spectacular breakdown was during drama, i don't know the exact details but the teacher felt so out of control that she started flinging text books at the little darlings who'd made her life a misery for the past 3 years. i loved drama and she was the only drama teacher in the school so it was a great shame for me when she had to go on long term sick :(.

because teachers have absolutely no method of control in the class room any more they must be under increasing pressure, to ensure the welfare of the education of the other students, there's literally nothing they can do to remove an unruly child from the class.

it seems this teacher, from the views of past and existing pupils was a fantastic dedicated teacher, it is a shame that his career has been ended by his actions brought on by the thoughtless actions of students, that less then half a century ago would have received harsh punishment for their disruption of the lesson and the other students learning.

i hope he gets off lightly, his career has been ruined and his name has been sullied, after years of service to thousands of people who he obviously gave a love of science he'll now be remembered as they guy who went pete tong on a student, this does not mean i condone what he did, but only that i can fully comprehend why he did it.

the biggest shame is that if the kid gets out of hospital (which i'm not entirely sure i hope he does) i doubt this will stop him from insulting and aggravating the very people trying to give him a brighter future.


can you tell i had to put up with a lot of this little scrots type when growing up?
 
Jeff Lynne said:
What kind of message does that send out to the kids popping ballonon?
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Telescopi said:
1) They're not your balloons.
2) What do you do when a kid becomes aggressive and demands them back?

I think the only answer is you would ignore the balloon popping and put up with it, because there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
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I think you will find that the correct answer was to take the balloons away.
During the morning there had been bangs and the one the lad did was one too many for the bloke.
When the class left the area it was decided by the Uni staff, teachers and stands that the balloons would be removed.

It is the basics of classroom management, if something/someone is causing problems you remove it/them from the class - simples.
 
Jeff Lynne said:
It would be interesting to know how old some of the contributors to this debate are.
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51 so I went to High School between 1969 to 1974.
In 5 years I never witnessed a student answering back a teacher - it just didn't happen.
I never knew of a class that was naughty and a teacher would have to try and 'control' it.
Classes in my day were always well behaved because we had the threat of corporal punishment.
The weapons were put up on the wall and if you had disrupted the class the teacher would ask you to choose your punishment.
The school also had a MAJOR weapon on it's side - the parent.
In my day the parent would support the schools decision and you would live in fear that your parents would find out because you'd get it again.
This was exactly the same with coppers - a copper would smack you round the head and tell you to not do it again and you would poo yourself if your parents found out.
Nowadays parents are battering down school doors if little Johnny has been looked at funny.
 
dmpoole said:
51 so I went to High School between 1969 to 1974.
In 5 years I never witnessed a student answering back a teacher - it just didn't happen.
I never knew of a class that was naughty and a teacher would have to try and 'control' it.
Classes in my day were always well behaved because we had the threat of corporal punishment.
The weapons were put up on the wall and if you had disrupted the class the teacher would ask you to choose your punishment.
The school also had a MAJOR weapon on it's side - the parent.
In my day the parent would support the schools decision and you would live in fear that your parents would find out because you'd get it again.
This was exactly the same with coppers - a copper would smack you round the head and tell you to not do it again and you would poo yourself if your parents found out.
Nowadays parents are battering down school doors if little Johnny has been looked at funny.
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Although I'm younger and it was to a slightly lesser extend, this was still the case even when I was leaving school in 1999.

It's in the last 10 years that things have really started to slide.
 
That wasn't the case when i left in 05/06ish. Some teachers that were bang on and got a banter with you but it seemed the old shool older ones tended to get more abuse!

We need more male teachers and the teachers to have more authority!
 
I feel sorry for the guy, he clearly lost it and was unwell to start with.

Should he have been teaching?

Who made the assessment to say he was ok to be back in the class room?

Those are the questions I would ask.

However as I wasn't in the class room, as is the case with the rest of you, I really have no idea what went on and how/why the teacher ended up loosing it.

Did he actually try and preemptively kill the pupil, this to me is doubtful but who knows?

Was the student a kid that needed a good kicking, or was he just sitting there quietly minding his own business?

Or did the student attack the teacher and the teacher used everything he could to defend himself in fear for his life?

By the way the media is putting the story you would think that the pupil is a little angel and the teacher ran into the class room with a pistol and attempted to shoot the guy dead. Im sure that there are two sides to the story, its just a shame we are only hearing one of them.
 
BluZiff said:
I feel sorry for the guy, he clearly lost it and was unwell to start with.

Should he have been teaching?

Who made the assessment to say he was ok to be back in the class room?

Those are the questions I would ask.
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it's called a CRB check, it checks your past offences and things like that, i had to do one when i was in a job working with kids and as far as I know you have to do one every year.
 
Regardless of what the teacher did, it just goes to show how parents bring their children up nowadays, imo. The current, disrepectful generation of children are as they are because of many factors but one of these is surely the modern attitude towards parenting and trying to treat children as though they are adults when they are not.
 
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vincent1989 said:
it's called a CRB check, it checks your past offences and things like that, i had to do one when i was in a job working with kids and as far as I know you have to do one every year.
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They last for 3 years and you have to have a new one when you change jobs.
I've been sorting out 35 CRBs this last week :

Parent - You've sent me a letter saying that my little darlings evidence aren't OK and I haven't given you 5 years of address evidence.
Me - You haven't
Parent - rant rant yes I have rant rant
Me - I am looking at your daughters CRB form that you have filled in and you haven't put a date in the boxes
Parent - Oh

(Just in case you're wondering my students go out on placements)
 
skippi90 said:
Or in other words, he is currently experiencing the schooling of today and so you can't fully appreciate what really happens in schools these days.

An interpretation of your own words, of course.
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Pretty much. I'd hate it if I were in school today. Especially considering that I'm 36.
 
dmpoole said:
They last for 3 years and you have to have a new one when you change jobs.
I've been sorting out 35 CRBs this last week :
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I pity you, although me and a colleague are meant to be doing 300 renewals in the next couple of months. 90% of the people you ask to complete one can't fill them out or fail to send enough ID, and the CRB are so ridiculous at times I'd like to rip my eyes out instead of read the reasons for returning forms.

vincent1989 said:
fair enough mate, i didn't stick the job so didn't have to do a second but a mate had to do one this year so i just assumed it was every year.
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Some companies do them that often, particularly at the moment - Cheaper to sack someone for a misdemeanour 10 years ago than pay redundancy.
 
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dmpoole said:
I think you will find that the correct answer was to take the balloons away.
During the morning there had been bangs and the one the lad did was one too many for the bloke.
When the class left the area it was decided by the Uni staff, teachers and stands that the balloons would be removed.

It is the basics of classroom management, if something/someone is causing problems you remove it/them from the class - simples.
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So the minority spoil things for the majority then?

Unruly kids win!

Even though the correct answer, as you've suggested here works I can't help but feel that it sends out the wrong message. I'd have kept the balloons and sellotaped the popping kids hands behind his back, or actions to that effect.

It just seems that your solution is to keep the peace.
 
DominicStar said:
I pity you, although me and a colleague are meant to be doing 300 renewals in the next couple of months. 90% of the people you ask to complete one can't fill them out or fail to send enough ID, and the CRB are so ridiculous at times I'd like to rip my eyes out instead of read the reasons for returning forms.
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I attempted to fill one out and ended up ballsing it up. I got another copy and haven't bothered to since. I know they've heard it all before but I feel quite offended at the whole thought of it.
 
Jeff Lynne said:
I attempted to fill one out and ended up ballsing it up. I got another copy and haven't bothered to since. I know they've heard it all before but I feel quite offended at the whole thought of it.
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my signature went about 1mm out of the box so i thought they wouldn't worry about it, got it back after a week with a new form to fill out :o
 
everyone is talking about attempted murder, i dont really like this term, and it doesnt apply to 99% of cases, why is it thrown around?

just to clear that up
 
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