I'm sick of emailin 20+ members so here it is......MATCHED BETTING by anksta

mehuk said:
still dont get how this can be profit making. Obviously it is, but its going over my head :(

Is this correct:

1 - Put £25 into a Betfred account
2 - Put £25 into a Betfair account + whatever I need to cover any loss
3 - Make a bet on Betfred
4 - Counter that bet with a lay on Betfair
5 - Hope that result goes my way, and end up losing £1 or £2
(This is where im stuck, as although I counter the loss on one or the other, im putting up £50 minimum, and cant see where that returns)

(Ill try to carry on)
6 - Betfred now give me £25 free to make a bet (maybe more if T&Cs state)
7 - Make bet on Betfred
8 - Counter that with a lay on Betfair
9 - Lose maybe £1 or £2 - but end up with i.e. £23 from the free bet which i can now withdraw
10 - As soon as money is withdrawable, close account and start again with a different bookmakers

.....

To me, it seems as if im giving Betfred £25, but getting i.e. £23 back, where does the profit come from?

Whilst at the same time, Betfair have £25+ of my money......

I hate not understanding :o :mad:


Ok.....you loose 2 or 3 quid from your first bet. The second bet is with free money so whatever the result you are in profit minus the percent you loose from laying at the betting exchange.

see?
 
Youstolemyname said:
Ok.....you loose 2 or 3 quid from your first bet. The second bet is with free money so whatever the result you are in profit minus the percent you loose from laying at the betting exchange.

see?

Sort of.... but what I dont get is:

The losing bet is with Betfred... they keep my £25 stake. So in theory the £25 free bet is just giving me my money back?

Are we saying that, although I lose with Betfred, it means I win with Betfair, hence Betfair account gets the winnings (on top of my £25), then the Betfred bet is matched moneywise (bar £1 or £2) because of those winnings.

I dont get how im able to draw out more money than I put into Betfred.

If I lose both bets at Betfred.. then I have £0 money with them. Although this is countered by Betfair, I dont see where the profit is, as Betfair is my own money anyway.

I.E:

Bet 1 - My money / Lay 1 - My Money
Bet 2 - Free Money / Lay 2 - My Money

If that free money bet loses, surely the Bookies keep the £25 stake and I get none of the free money? Although i even out at Betfair, I dont see how I am making a profit.

Do my bookie bets have to come in?
 
mehuk said:
Sort of.... but what I dont get is:

The losing bet is with Betfred... they keep my £25 stake. So in theory the £25 free bet is just giving me my money back?

Are we saying that, although I lose with Betfred, it means I win with Betfair, hence Betfair account gets the winnings (on top of my £25), then the Betfred bet is matched moneywise (bar £1 or £2) because of those winnings.

I dont get how im able to draw out more money than I put into Betfred.

If I lose both bets at Betfred.. then I have £0 money with them. Although this is countered by Betfair, I dont see where the profit is, as Betfair is my own money anyway.

I.E:

Bet 1 - My money / Lay 1 - My Money
Bet 2 - Free Money / Lay 2 - My Money

If that free money bet loses, surely the Bookies keep the £25 stake and I get none of the free money? Although i even out at Betfair, I dont see how I am making a profit.

Do my bookie bets have to come in?


No mate, it doesn't matter which side wins, the result is essentially pointless.

Bet 1 - My money / Lay 1 - My Money
Bet 2 - Free Money / Lay 2 - My Money

Using this you wrote with say a bet on United to beat Liverpool.

Bet 1 - My money / Lay 1 - My Money, if United win, say the odds are 2.1 and you bet 25 quid, you would win 52.50 at the bookies, but pay out ~53 quid, gain of -50p. If Liverpool win or its a draw, your 25 you put into the bookies goes but you win the amount that you laid at betfair i.e. ~25 quid, usually works out a bit less which is where the loss comes from on betfair side. Again gain is around -50p.

So from the first pair of bets, you have lost about 50p, if you won at the bookies, take out as much as possible and put it back in betfair. If you won at betfair then you dont have to worry about anythin.

They should then credit you with your 25 pound free bet:

Bet 2 - Free Money / Lay 2 - My Money

say you bet Argentina to beat Brazil this weekend, odds of 4 and 4.2 say.

If Argentina win, at the bookies you'll get 100-25 (stake is not returned in most bookies) and at betfair, you'll pay out 75.90, loss of 90p.

If Brazil win or its a draw, you'll lose again at the bookies, but win whatever you laid at betfair i.e. around £18 for this bet at these odds.


The profit comes from the money your getting back on the second bet, the bets always counter so you always get back what you bet. But when you bet with the free bet, essentially your just obtaining the free bet again, but you can withdraw it now.

Still not clear?
 
Let me do some math, see if this is how it should work - going by your post:

Bet 1:

My money at Betfred - £25 W @ 1.9
My money at Betfair - £25 lay @ 2.0

Betfred wins - im up £47.50
Betfair pays - im down £50

After 1 bet, im £2.50 out of pocket.

Bet 2:
Free money at Betfred - £25 W @ 1.9
My money at Betfair - £25 lay @ 2.0

Betfred wins - im up £47.50 (SNR) - £25 = £22.50
Betfair pays - im down £50

After 2 bets, im out of pocket £27.50 + £2.50 = £30

Where am I going wrong with the maths on this?

Sorry for all the questions, feel free to give up on me :o :(
 
mehuk said:
Let me do some math, see if this is how it should work - going by your post:

Bet 1:

My money at Betfred - £25 W @ 1.9
My money at Betfair - £25 lay @ 2.0

Betfred wins - im up £47.50
Betfair pays - im down £50

After 1 bet, im £2.50 out of pocket.

Bet 2:
Free money at Betfred - £25 W @ 1.9
My money at Betfair - £25 lay @ 2.0

Betfred wins - im up £47.50 (SNR) - £25 = £22.50
Betfair pays - im down £50

After 2 bets, im out of pocket £27.50 + £2.50 = £30

Where am I going wrong with the maths on this?

Sorry for all the questions, feel free to give up on me :o :(


have you done those calculations in your head or in the calculator?


Do it in the calculator I think you'll find adds up different
 
I believe I understand the concept now, just reassure me:

I put say £25 into website A for team X to win, and £25 into website B for team X to lose, at the closest odds possible.

I lose practically nothing.

I use a free £25 on website A for team Y to win, and my own £25 on website B for team Y to lose.

Again the £25 on both websites cancel each other out, only I take away the winnings from A or B, remembering one of the bets did not cost me anything. So I essentially made a bet for £0 and took away a winning.

Right?



If I have that right, I just need to learn how betting works. Never been involved in it you see. Could someone please make an example for me, say I do put down £25, what the winnings would mean with whatever odds. Thanks :)

Also, do you ever get identical odds on both bets? Therefore losing nothing?
 
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http://www.fundmydegree.com/matchedbetting/fmdmbc.php

Please use the calculator = its there to help and do all the caluclations for you :)
Just simply enter the numbers in carefull. It will tell you what you return will be.
Be carefull though as you dont always 'match' the LAY bet with exactly what your betting at the bookies - again the calculator tells you exactly how much to 'lay' bet.

It does work - but seems its a lot of effort for little return. I cant seem to get many 'free bets' past the 60% return mark :-(

Maybe if anyone finds decent odds they should be posted :)
Would save a lot of time searching through bookies (who some are super slow might I add)
 
Could someone please make an example for me,

read the fundmydegree site - it really will help.

But...
Man utd odds = 4.0
Liverpool = 4.0

Bet man utd to win $25
25 x 4.0 = 100

Lay $25 Man utd @ 4.0
4.0 x 25 = 100
One wins and one loses - so the one that wins is credited the money. Say BetFair.
The bet is essentially cancelled out. Now the free bet comes into play.
again you bet and one wins and one loses. But this time it was with free money.
The winnning a/c is credited the a/c say again BetFair = so BetFair has now been credited 2 wins @ $25. You lost one bet of your own money $25 and lost another 'free bet' of $25 on the bookie site so you are down $25 of your own money.
On the betfair site you are up $50

So your total profit is $25 essentially the freebet.

However the odds are never exactly the same and usually works out around 60-80% of the freebet you get back


:)
 
Right I'm going to run through an example, exactly from the start. Some people are still struggling a bit so maybe if they see it written down all the way through and can check it they might get it.



Right, my starting amount is £125, no more no less, nobody need worry about anythin and all sums and profits will be calculated from this.


Step 1

Sign up to Quidco. Quidco is a referral site that will allow you to earn cash for signing up to the bookies (see other posts for details).

Step 2

Going through Quidco to obtain their £25 referral, signup to Betfair and enter promotional code 6WYVMKTDH, this will get you £25 in your account. Deposit £100.

Step 3

Going through Quidco to obtain their £15 referral, signup to Betfred and deposit £25

Step 4

Using the Bet Calculator, find odds on any upcoming football matches, preferably higher odds and the closer together.

e.g. Chivas USA are playing Colombus in the MLS tonight at 1am, odds 2 and 2.08 for Chivas to win at betfred and fair respectively, this bet will yield a loss 1.60, a 93% bet retention (remember you're lookin for >92%).

For this bet, you would bet £25 at betfred on Chivas, odds 2.00 and then lay (if you dont know what layin is or or how to do it on betfair then I suggest you consult fundmydegree or there is a little animation on betfair that explains it) £24.63 on Chivas not to win.

That would be your first bet.

If Chivas win, you will receive £50 at Betfred and pay out £51.23 at betfair, i.e. profit of -1.23.

If the game is a draw or Chivas lose, your 25 in Betfred will go, but you will collect £24.63 in Betfair, a profit of -37p.

Now your free bet should be sitting in your Betfred, we move on to:

Step 5


Using your free bet, find another match coming up soon, as you are now using your free bet and for Betfair this is SNR (Stake Not Returned) you should be looking for bets with high odds, preferably over 4 and as close as possible on betfair and betfred, if you're lucky enough to find one with higher odds on betfair than betfred then lucky you.

A realistic bet for this would be odds of around 4.3 on Betfred and 4.65 say on Betfair although it is quite likely with enough browsing you can find better odds. I've made these odds up because I dont have time to look for a bet right now, (I found you a qualifer!) so say these odds are on any game: Boro to beat United.

So, you would put your odds into the bet calculator, select Free Bet Stake Not Returned and this would tell you how to place your free bet:

place your £25 on betfred, making sure use my free bet/promo cash/bonus balance or whatever it says (at this point, only the freebet should be left in the account as you would have withdrawn any winnings before this).

Then, on betfair, you would lay 17.93 for Boro not to win.

So, if Boro win, you will collect 82.50 at Betfred (SNR so you wont retain the 25 you bet with) and pay out 83.40 on Betfair, i.e. a loss of 90p.

If United win/draw you will lose your free bet on Betfred, but collect £17.93 at Betfair.

Step 6

From your starting point of £125 you can calculate your winnings:

If you win at the bookies both times:

profit of -1.23 first bet, a profit of -90p second bet

If you win at Betfair both times:

profit of -37p first bet, a profit of -£7.07 second bet.

So this begs the Question, the one question you all want answering, if these are the profits your losing no matter what happens, WHERE THE **** DOES ANY MONEY COME FROM????

Well, if you go back to point 1, you started with £125 to bet with, then from the calculations above, lost £2.13 on the 1st combination, and £7.44 on the second. But remember, you had £125 of your own money AND 25 OF SOMEONE ELSE'S so your sums come from £150, not £125.

Combination 1, £150 - £2.13 = 147.87 a profit of £22.87

Combination 2, £150 - £7.44 = £142.56 a profit of £17.56

Obviously there are another 2 combinations of where you win/lose but thats just math.

Also from this it seems it is much better to win both times at the bookies, however in reality this means you have to switch money from the bookies back across to betfair etc. which can take days and slow you right down.

I hope this makes it clearer.



Also, remembering your referrals from the start, £25 for Betfair quidco, £25 for referral code in betfair and £15 for Betfred Quidco.

Thats another £65 on top of whatever you win.
 
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mehuk said:
Am I right in saying that you always need the lay' to win?

You need to both bet for the outcome, and lay the exact same outcome. This in effect, if the odds are close enough, cancels out the fact that you are even betting as you don’t actually loose money whatever the outcome of the event. You win at either the bookies, or at betfair and loose at either the bookies or at betfair; you are just circulating money around to unlock the free bets, which is where the income comes from because you can withdraw the free bets after using them in other bets in the same fashion.

(Each website has its own T&C’s and there are many other factors to consider, please please please read the first link I gave to MSE to fully understand the process)
 
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Thanks for that - much clearer to me now... BUT ;)

1 - I want to win at Betfair not the bookies (ideally..( correct?
2 - These referral amounts, do they need to be used in bets to get money back, or can they just be withdrawn?
3 - Will a Credit Card affect the winnings by any large amount? i.e. charges

Other than that, I think I am good to go.

Many Thanks :)
 
mehuk said:
Thanks for that - much clearer to me now... BUT ;)

1 - I want to win at Betfair not the bookies (ideally..( correct?
2 - These referral amounts, do they need to be used in bets to get money back, or can they just be withdrawn?
3 - Will a Credit Card affect the winnings by any large amount? i.e. charges

Other than that, I think I am good to go.

Many Thanks :)


1 - You want to win at betfair solely for ease, you will be using betfair for pretty much everybookie therefore you wont need to change money round.

2 - The Quidco referrals are credited to the PayPal you register with them, some take a while to process though but can be just withdrawn. The betfair referral code will be credited to your betfair account, you can just withdraw it as far as I know but in reality it will just become part of your balance.

3 - Credit Charges are upto the bookies, you will have to check their terms for details.
 
anksta said:
Step 2

Going through Quidco to obtain their £25 referral, signup to Betfair and enter promotional code 6WYVMKTDH, this will get you £25 in your account. Deposit £100.

Don't understand this - is this your referral code? In which case it is completely different.

From MoneySavingExpert:

Use the Quidco link to click through to Betfair and then create an account. During the sign up process enter the code for a free bet: FTB125. This will get you a free £25 bet once you have bet £25. Alternatively you can use the Betfair 'refer a friend' scheme. In this case you enter a referral ID rather than the FTB125 code and instead you get a £20 free bet after placing £100 of bets and possibly a share of the referrers £20 in cash, plus a reward at the end of three months based on the amount you have bet. Check the referral thread for more details, or hxxp:/www.referandearn.com (Betfair site). Codes must be entered at the time of sign up - they cannot be added retrospectively.
 
Burly said:
Don't understand this - is this your referral code? In which case it is completely different.

Yes that's his personal referral code and it's really quite off of him to not declare it as such, that practise is against both this forums and MSE's forums rules. Whilst it would be of benefit for you to use, I'ts less beneficial than you going through quidco, who offer £25 after you deposit and wager £10 through Betfair.
 
eLbot said:
Yes that's his personal referral code and it's really quite off of him to not declare it as such, that practise is against both this forums and MSE's forums rules. Whilst it would be of benefit for you to use, I'ts less beneficial than you going through quidco, who offer £25 after you deposit and wager £10 through Betfair.
The Quidco thing is separate though as you can use both. Seems using FTB125 would be better than his referral code.
 
I already had a betfair account before I started so I cant validate if it is separate or not.

Obviously Betfair don't want to pay out on referral or offer a bonus incentive twice for the same sign-up so it seems unlikely that it's the case. Whilst Quidco may not automatically fill in the bonus/referral code, the forwarding affiliate url may be tracked, so i'm dubious, unless ofcourse you/anyone else did both and were credited both ammounts? Can you confirm that's the case?

They may ofcourse, see it as offering an incentive for the refer and an incentive for the new client to wager money, i.e. They see it as giving money to two separate people. Which is the exact basis that all these cash-back sites work on.
 
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