I'm tempted to restart the competitions, discuss

[Rojin]

It's not as random as awarding points for an arbitrary theme. It is much easier to judge a wedding photo as a wedding photo and a landscape as a landscape than it is to judge how a random theme like circles has been incorporated into a wedding photo. I wouldn't even know where to begin to judge theme incorporation but I have a good idea how I personally perceive and like different photos, and the technical side is even easier and more objective.

Well not really, if you can't see how the Wedding photo has integrated the theme of Circles then it has failed and would score lowly?

I think technical marking isn't possibly the best way for a general competition. I for one wouldn't be able to mark a photo on technical merit as that doesn't really interest me. I'm all about emotional response, so the old impact score I guess? A simple voting method is going to generate the most interaction?

 

[D.P.]

Why would I enter a shot as an occasional shooter when there are those that want the quarterly themeless competition so they can dedicate more time to creating a shot that will see the standards of competition entry improve? It certainly doesn't appear to be a nice friendly comp that a happy snapper such as myself would like to enter and feel I have a chance in.

I know that there are far better photographers in this forum than myself, who routinely produce great work. It'll be a breeze for them to enter their favourite shot from the applicable time period, without even having to have given the competition any thought whatsoever, that will be far better than anything I can produce. At least with having a theme it gave an extra edge of interpretation that levelled the playing field a touch.

I don't have any interest in an easy competition, there's no motivation for me to enter it.

You can enter a shot as an occasional shooter if there is no theme, just choose the photo you are most happy with and your done. Couldn't be easier.

How the heck are you supposed to enter the competition as an occasional shooter when ou haven't had the chance to work towards a random theme? It just isn't possible which is why many of us never entered the last competition. It was set up for regular shooters with plenty of time. Not the occasional shooter that once in a while has so,e time on their hands to enjoy a hobby they like in a fashion they enjoy.

 

[Rojin]

I made this list not as themes for a competition but as a seperate teaching exercise for beginners to give them a structured approach to learning. This would allow a themeless competition to run alongside regular teaching exercises for beginners.

Nether the less, they can easily be used as themes. Themes don't have to be constrictive unless you want them to be.

 

[Rojin]

You can enter a shot as an occasional shooter if there is no theme, just choose the photo you are most happy with and your done. Couldn't be easier.

How the heck are you supposed to enter the competition as an occasional shooter when ou haven't had the chance to work towards a random theme? It just isn't possible which is why many of us never entered the last competition. It was set up for regular shooters with plenty of time. Not the occasional shooter that once in a while has so,e time on their hands to enjoy a hobby they like in a fashion they enjoy.

Did you read what I posted?

 

[D.P.]

Well not really, if you can't see how the Wedding photo has integrated the theme of Circles then it has failed and would score lowly?

I think technical marking isn't possibly the best way for a general competition. I for one wouldn't be able to mark a photo on technical merit as that doesn't really interest me. I'm all about emotional response, so the old impact score I guess? A simple voting method is going to generate the most interaction?

But other people might see how circles are incorporated, it is completely subjective and arbitrary with no reflection on the quality of the photo itself.
As you rightly point out, the technical merit is less important than the emotion response and impact - which is easily judged by the photo as a whole independently and has absolutely nothing to do with an arbitrary theme that the artist doesn't care about and has no emotional connection with.

 

[D.P.]

Did you read what I posted?

Yes, and it made no logical sense.

 

[Zogger]

I think technical marking isn't possibly the best way for a general competition. I for one wouldn't be able to mark a photo on technical merit as that doesn't really interest me. I'm all about emotional response, so the old impact score I guess? A simple voting method is going to generate the most interaction?

IMO when judging there should be two questions being asked

"Is it relevant to the theme?"
"Do I like the photo?"

The technical part is really just a factor of whether you like the photo. If the end result is good it doesn't matter if they used f/22 or f/8 - but if they use f/22 and handhold with a shutter speed of 1/6th and end up with a blurry photo, or the white balance is off and it's horribly orange, the technical side has caused it to score low on the "do I like the photo" category.

so I think technical is largely irrelevant as a separate score.

 

[Rojin]

But other people might see how circles are incorporated, it is completely subjective and arbitrary with no reflection on the quality of the photo itself.
As you rightly point out, the technical merit is less important than the emotion response and impact - which is easily judged by the photo as a whole independently and has absolutely nothing to do with an arbitrary theme that the artist doesn't care about and has no emotional connection with.

That's the difference, some like to have a theme that will challenge their creativity and possibly push them out of their comfort zone. Others don't like it as they possibly can't relate to a theme and would rather just continue what they're doing. The whole point of a themed competition is to drive creativity and maybe improve understanding of various techniques. A themeless competition does none of that. That's why I personally prefer a themed competition.

I don't think we need to go round in circles any more!

 

[Rojin]

Yes, and it made no logical sense.

Which possibly explained why your response didn't either

I am an occasional shooter who managed to find the few hours a month to enter the competition. I didn't have loads of spare time on my hands which was used to work on a themed competition entry. To think that is the only way is pure fantasy.

 

[Zogger]

this thread has got too complicated to follow.

I think everyone who wants to should submit their own SINGLE idea for the competition format and post them in a new thread, then have comments / vote instead of going over whether there should or shouldn't be a theme because D.P and Rojin are not going to agree.

Edit: tbh it doesn't have to be a single idea, as long as all ideas are complete and clearly laid out, and can answer at least the following questions:

Are there themes? How are they decided?
What are the restrictions on when the photo is taken?
How long are rounds?
Are there seasons? how long?
How are submissions handled? Are they anonymous?
How is voting handled? Is it anonymous? Is it limited to who can vote?
What is your hourly consultancy fee for implementing this idea?
Anything else?

This doesn't have to be decided straight away, we can have a one-off competition in the mean time to see how it goes.

We could even do this vote on a monthly basis and have a vote every month as to whose competition idea is the best Perhaps we should have three judges judging each idea for three categories, say impact, feasibility and technical and then after a year the overall winner of the twelve rounds gets to try their idea for a month

 

[D.P.]

IMO when judging there should be two questions being asked

"Is it relevant to the theme?"
"Do I like the photo?"

The technical part is really just a factor of whether you like the photo. If the end result is good it doesn't matter if they used f/22 or f/8 - but if they use f/22 and handhold with a shutter speed of 1/6th and end up with a blurry photo, or the white balance is off and it's horribly orange, the technical side has caused it to score low on the "do I like the photo" category.

so I think technical is largely irrelevant as a separate score.

I agree 100%, but if we want to support begginers then giving a technical score and allowing constructive comments will help beginners tremendously. If you link impact with technical merit then it won't be as clear to them why a photo scored low! does the subject suck or did the photo quality suck?

If comments are always provide then there is probably no need for separation it if people must give a score then it won't be clear to beginners why the photo scored lowly, they may not perceive the severe softness.

 

[Zogger]

^ all true

 

[D.P.]

IMO this thread has got too complicated to follow.

I think everyone who wants to should submit their own SINGLE idea for the competition format and post them, then have comments / vote instead of going over whether there should or shouldn't be a theme because D.P and Rojin are not going to agree.

This doesn't have to be decided straight away, we can have a one-off competition in the mean time to see how it goes.

We could even do this vote on a monthly basis and have a vote every month as to whose competition idea is the best Perhaps we should have three judges judging each idea for three categories, say impact, feasibility and technical and then after a year the overall winner of the twelve rounds gets to try their idea for a month

Agreed.

My suggestion, taking into account others opinions and trying to make as many people happy as possible, is the following:

Monthly competition.

Suggested themes posted several months in advance. Themes should try to accommodate all users with all different equipment and skill levels.

You don't have to follow the theme at all.

There are 2 separate scores, one for impact/emotional response/art and one for theme conceptulization. The 2 scores are absolutely independent. Upon submission you state whether you were adhering to the theme or not, only those photos that stated yes will have the theme score. Constructive comments are highly recommended, especially to beginners.

You can enter a photo taken in the previous 6 months.

There is no accumulation of points/leader board. Each competition is a separate entity.

At the end of the year there is a yearly competition, people select their best photo that has been submitted to one of the monthly competitions. Again, 2 sperate winners for each score metric.

Everyone gets to vote. If we see some kind of abuse then We need to name and shame. You are encouraged to score as many photos as possible but are not forced to score a photo in categories you know little about, dislike, have personal issues with. E.g. If you hate sports or nature you are not forced to rate it for impact if those genres mean zero to you.

 

[Brabbinho]

That seems very logical Dp. That would have my vote

 

[Rojin]

I'd go for simple voting and have it open for all to vote. I don't see scoring working unless it's consistent from judges. For me the photo should also be taken in the time frame of the competition as well.

All photos are entered into the voting poll. At the end of the vote you get the highest scoring overall winner, then the also the winner with the highest score that took part in the theme. I can see it just all being to confusing having both though...

 

[BF-Bert]

Whats the point in having a monthly competition if you can simply choose a photo you took 6 months ago?

Monthly theme announced at start of month, nothing too abstract keep the themes simple. Photo to be taken in that month.

 

[Rexxar]

I like the idea, how about having it set that (as said by BF-Bert) , that the photo must be fresh and have EXIF to prove this?

 

[Zogger]

This is my idea. It's a bit radical so you might not like it.


A season is made up of three rounds. The deadline for each round is the end of each month.
Round 1 - Themed round
Round 2 - Themed round
Round 3 - Free for all

The theme is a suitably generic theme to encompass multiple styles.
The winner of round 1 in the first season chooses the theme for round 1 in the second season
The winner of round 2 in the first season chooses the theme for round 2 in the second season

Photos can be taken from any point after the theme is chosen until the deadline for that round. Free for all can be taken from any time after the start of the season. So effectively you get 2 1/2 to 3 months for each round.

For each round, a public poll is started (possibly in GD) which is open for everyone to vote on.
Additionally, everyone who took part in the competition is encouraged to score other entries. This is not mandatory but if it is done, all other entries must be scored, including some comment as to why. Each user gives each photo two scores out of 10: one for Theme, one for Overall Impact & Quality

For the free for all round there is no theme score so everyone gets 10 for every vote (this has the effect of weighting the scores slighly in favour of the free for all round).

Voting is closed after a week.

At the end of each round there are three possible 'winners':
'People's Choice' Award
'Participant's Choice' Award based on the average total score given by other participants
Best overall, with some combination of the vote and the scores (aka strictly come photography) yet to be thought up.

At the end of the season, the winner for each category is the user with the best score from their two best rounds.

Realistically I don't think anonimity will work out due to watermarks etc. Honesty is the best policy, man.

This is probably quite complicated to administer and may be a little complicated to understand, it would probably need a dedicated mini-site which tells you exactly what's going on and all the deadlines at the current point in time.

This could also be changed to four rounds with three themed rounds, one or the other.

 

[mattyg]

^^ Like it

 

[D.P.]

Whats the point in having a monthly competition if you can simply choose a photo you took 6 months ago?

Monthly theme announced at start of month, nothing too abstract keep the themes simple. Photo to be taken in that month.

Because not everyone takes photos every single month and having a more relaxed rules will allow more people to enter each month. E.g., since September my camera has been 3000miles from me but I was quote active for 2 months in the summer and have a few nice photos I wouldn't mind entering in a competition.

Having 6 or better still 12 months allows you to go through multiple seasons with the different photography opertunities each season provides.



To out it another way a lot of people never or rarely entered the last comp because they always ran out of time. Rather than not entering and thus reducing the number of contestents you leave this open so people that didn't have the time can still enter the competition with a photo from an earlier shoot. This will make the completion more popular we more entries with a higher standard of photos.

This idea combines the best parts of the 2 choices: quarterly competition to give people time, and monthly competition to maintain excitement.