Insulate Britain and Extinction Rebellion, domestic terrorists?

[Dirk Diggler]

They may be annoying but they are attempting to help spread the word of climate change and the urgency required to combat it, I guess they have everyone's best interests at heart.
And they have a point.
Not sure I agree on their methods however.

Every domestic terrorist would lay claim to the above, they all think they have a point worth terrorising the population with for our "best interests".

We are a democratic nation with processes in place to facilitate change - terrorising the public is not acceptable.

 

[Freakbro]

Yes, they are going too far. Hopefully the new Police & Crime bill will give the authorities the power to deal with them because as we can plainly see the existing powers are wholly inadequate.

How is that going to work within the framework of the recent supreme court ruling

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/protest-laws-supreme-court-arms-fair-b1872636.html

Supreme Court backs protesters and rules blocking roads can be ‘lawful’ way to demonstrate

Judges say there should be ‘degree of tolerance to disruption’ caused by right to protest

A ruling given on Friday morning said that protesters can have a “lawful excuse” defence against the offence of obstructing a highway, even where they have used “deliberately physically obstructive conduct”.

“There should be a certain degree of tolerance to disruption to ordinary life, including disruption of traffic, caused by the exercise of the right to freedom of expression or freedom of peaceful assembly,” the majority ruling added.

“There must be an assessment of the facts in each individual case to determine whether the interference with article 10 or article 11 rights was ‘necessary in a democratic society’.”

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

But China.....

Seriously UK emissions per capita are very high, don't forget we just outsourced a lot it to those countries. We can do a lot more..

Compared to where in Europe? Certainly not Germany.

My point still stands. What can people do on an individual basis that they are not already doing, and is what Extinction Rebellion doing helping or hindering this process? If they want to help spread education, organise mass litter picks, lobby car manufacturers to reduce emissions, make companies generally more responsible then sure, they have my support. If they want to stand on top of a train, hold up traffic and prevent people from going about their day then they aren't helping anyone.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

How is that going to work within the framework of the recent supreme court ruling

I did say "hopefully"

The law courts are an important check on our democracy and I fully support their involvement, even if it goes against my personal view.

 

[throwaway4372]

IMO this is really simple.

If the action being taken (sitting on a motorway) was taken by somebody not trying to make a political statement then the police response would be immediate arrest.
The addition of a political statement should not make it a lesser offense.

As a thought excercise...
If someone was trying to deliberately disrupt your national infrastructure, e.g. Russia.
If the addition of a political statement increases the disruption they cause you, then they'll do it every time.
This is why it's a strategic weakness to show special treatment when a political statement is added.

 

[GGizmo]

They are breaking the law and their actions will eventually cause a breach of the peace as they are stopping traffic along a highway.

The police are political these days. If it had been some anti-vaxxers sat in the road, or a motorway the police dogs would be out.

I suspect the cops on the ground are being ordered not to remove them.

 

[Keltyx]

They don't want to curb woman's rights or gays etc so not sure how you can label them the same as the nutty Sharia law brigade.

I'm not at all, what I was saying is if this kind of action is "normalised" then other organisations will consider it to get publicity for themselves. If they did they couldn't be dealt with differently to XR/IB as it could be seen as persecution of 1 belief over another.

 

[fez]

All they are doing is turning public opinion against themselves and I would wager they are turning some people off the issue they are trying to promote. They are literally punishing random people trying to earn a living and doing nothing to punish the people who are at the core of global warming who should be footing the bill and responsibility for it.

Utterly retarded actions.

 

[ZombieFan]

History will decide. Emmeline Pankhurst and the suffragettes performed acts which where much more violent and disruptive than Extinction Rebellion, but are now considered to be heroes when looking back.

 

[Dunners]

History will decide. Emmeline Pankhurst and the suffragettes performed acts which where much more violent and disruptive than Extinction Rebellion, but are now considered to be heroes when looking back.

Yep - future generations may in fact despise us for not doing enough. If the human race is still around of course

 

[fez]

History will decide. Emmeline Pankhurst and the suffragettes performed acts which where much more violent and disruptive than Extinction Rebellion, but are now considered to be heroes when looking back.

How is this even remotely similar. You could ask the thousands of people in those cars if they think climate change is happening and is important and should be addressed and most of them will say yes. They aren't converting anyone. Bringing the message to anyone or changing anyones minds. They are just causing a problem for thousands of innocent people who don't make the decisions that need to be made to get this group what they want. They are being selfish, stupid *****.

Yep - future generations may in fact despise us for not doing enough. If the human race is still around of course

They can despise all they like but society is ruled and run by a tiny minority of the population. If you want to properly change things then you need to appeal to those people. Its much easier to change policy for a country than it is to ask nearly 70m people to decide to do something on their own.

Do you want to ask people to give up their jobs because they have to drive to them? Do you want to ask people to give up their homes because they are poorly insulated or ask them to pay for changes they can't afford? Any large scale change needs to come from government and industry.

 

[Dunners]

Protesting in parliament square (for example) means they can just be ignored... I guess they need to get people to really notice by causing disruption. Its certainly made me aware of this insulation thing!

I so also think its an easy option to say the government should be solely responsible for resolving it...if everyone makes changes it will all add up. Need to be a combination of both.

I think for most people, the concept that we could make the planet uninhabitable is too big a concept over too large timescales for them to rationalise... Apparently the human brain thinks of death is something that happens to other people, I think its the same with things like this. Its not an immediate priority!

Also to the people who keep saying this type of road protest causes more pollution - how many people didn't travel at all those days due to the issues, presumably there was less pollution due to them staying at home. Some would argue that its a tiny consideration against the extinction of the species.

 

[Nasher]

Hipster terrorists

 

[Rroff]

Also to the people who keep saying this type of road protest causes more pollution - how many people didn't travel at all those days due to the issues, presumably there was less pollution due to them staying at home. Some would argue that its a tiny consideration against the extinction of the species.

Though I understand the thought that it is a tiny extra bit of pollution vs the greater good - the vast majority of that traffic wouldn't be there just for the fun of it so I doubt any significant number just made other plans instead it almost certainly produced more pollution than if it hadn't have happened.

 

[Nasher]

All that traffic standing still would have made way more pollution. Plus many of these idiots would have driven in themselves.

 

[Angilion]

History will decide. Emmeline Pankhurst and the suffragettes performed acts which where much more violent and disruptive than Extinction Rebellion, but are now considered to be heroes when looking back.

Good political and propaganda skill. Most people are ignorant of the suffragettes actions and motivations because of that skill. It's also a matter of fashion in politics. Maybe those hyper-sexist fanatics who planted bombs in public places and who are considered to be heroes today will be considered villains in the future. That's happened to other violent extremists, e.g. the KKK in the USA. Or maybe not. For example, Shaka was a hyper-violent imperialist responsible for the mass murder of at least a million people while creating his empire. e.g. his standing orders after victory were to kill all the men and to take the women and children as spoils of war. And now he's considered to be a hero. There's an airport recently named after him.

Yep - future generations may in fact despise us for not doing enough. If the human race is still around of course

Or they may despise "us" for doing the wrong things, e.g. making pollution worse while creating an association between environmentalism and being annoying solely for the purpose of being annoying, putting lives at risk solely for the purpose of being annoying, the arrogance of considering yourself above the law, etc.

Meanwhile, the scientists and engineers who might actually solve the problem get little or no attention. Maybe that unfairness will be rectified by future generations.

 

[FoxEye]

Meanwhile, the scientists and engineers who might actually solve the problem get little or no attention. Maybe that unfairness will be rectified by future generations.

The scientists and engineers aren't in leadership positions.

Those who are, always have other priorities. Like profits, like getting re-elected.

Because of our collective short-termism, we'll continue down the path to oblivion whilst saying to ourselves, "It's getting a bit warm, isn't it?" as our eyeballs catch fire

People know what needs to be done (mostly). People know that drastic action would be/is necessary. But they also see that drastic action (or much action at all) is simply nowhere to be seen. And people accept that. They just ignore it for the most case. We fully understand that we're not doing what is necessary. We just carry on regardless, collectively.

Humanity's collective motto could be, "I try not to worry about it."

 

[explicit4u]

Good political and propaganda skill. Most people are ignorant of the suffragettes actions and motivations because of that skill. It's also a matter of fashion in politics. Maybe those hyper-sexist fanatics who planted bombs in public places and who are considered to be heroes today will be considered villains in the future. That's happened to other violent extremists, e.g. the KKK in the USA. Or maybe not. For example, Shaka was a hyper-violent imperialist responsible for the mass murder of at least a million people while creating his empire. e.g. his standing orders after victory were to kill all the men and to take the women and children as spoils of war. And now he's considered to be a hero. There's an airport recently named after him.

The KKK were considered heroes?

Or they may despise "us" for doing the wrong things, e.g. making pollution worse while creating an association between environmentalism and being annoying solely for the purpose of being annoying, putting lives at risk solely for the purpose of being annoying, the arrogance of considering yourself above the law, etc.

Meanwhile, the scientists and engineers who might actually solve the problem get little or no attention. Maybe that unfairness will be rectified by future generations.

Solely for the purpose of being annoying, how have you come to that conclusion?

Do you not think XR would support those same scientists and engineers being given a bigger platform and increased funding?

 

[Dis86]

The KKK were considered heroes?

By some, yes.

 

[iamdjdz]

What I don't understand is why some of the members of the public didn't just drag them out of the way and drive through, some of the blockades looked to only have a few people. I'm pleasantly surprised in a way because I thought people didn't have the patience for this, but then equally annoyed people were soft enough to let a single line of 'protesters' block junctions. (I know in some places it was a lot but specifically in the places where there were less)