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Intel Arc series unveiled with the Alchemist dGPU to arrive in Q1 2022

Dicehunter said:
If they can get their 3070 competitor out the door and keep it at £400 that will sell like hotcakes, Only problem then becomes retailers making up excuses as to why they are charging hundreds more and the inevitable scalpers.
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we all know there won’t be enough stock available. Intel are the same as Nvidia and Amd, they all use the same parts and suppliers. If Amd, Nvidia, Microsoft and Sony can’t get enough parts for their current products then Intel aren’t going to magically find enough supplies to get decent stock.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The issue I have is that Nvidia,etc are making massive margins,despite "massive cost increases". It reminded of what happened before the first Geforce Titan came out at nearly £1000,in an era of flagship GPUs costing closer to half that. All of a sudden you had techsites post a "leaked Nvidia document" detailing "how expensive" TSMC 28NM was,and you had people trying to justify the cost increases due to "increased" costs. Yet this was the starting point of Nvidia rising to the money making machine it is today.

Remember,a while back it was all about substrates,GDDR6 costs,etc. Yet Sony can make the PS5 with a 300+ MM2 7NM SOC,16GB of GDDR6,a PCI-E 4.0 SSD,Blu-Ray optical drive with retailer margins,for £450 and not make a loss. AMD then released that weird 8C motherboard with no IGP,and 16GB of GDDR6 and I doubt that will cost more than Ryzen 7 5700G,with DDR4. I doubt OEMs are paying megabucks for that either. Then you go and look on HUKD,plenty of laptops with an RTX3060 or RTX3060 and a half decent 6C CPU,going for well under £1000. The laptop RTX3060 is a full GA106 GPU,unliked the salvaged part used in the RTX3060 desktop dGPU. I doubt the large system integrators like Dell and Lenovo,will be paying anything more than the minimum they can get away with either.

The leaking of all this news seems very good news for Nvidia,AMD,Intel,AIB partners,etc who can nicely justify jacking up their prices. Yet,lots of other computer parts seem to be relatively easy to get at RRP or below RRP,despite being affected by the same factors.

It distinctly reminds me of the times when RAM went up to silly prices a few times,and we found years later the companies had been having a Gentlemen's Agreement to not bother competing with each other.
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I'm quite sure there's a huge amount of market manipulation and cartel like behaviour going on. These companies are better served by agreeing to keep prices high than by competing with each other and there are multiple excuses used for why prices go high and remain high for months or years afterwards. It's broken capitalism and it's quite widespread especially in markets with fewer players where it serves all manufacturers to cooperate rather than compete. Then you get the army of paid undercover shills who argue that the new high price is somehow justified because of 'reasons' few of which are significant long term but can be used as an excuse to keep milking the consumer. The phone market was like this with Nokia and then Apple until we got more players on the scene (from China) who were willing to compete rather than collude and cheat their customers.
 
What would be great to have is some more market segmentation.
A 4th player focused on delivering last-gen performance at bargain prices could potentially make a killing in the current market and I'm sure it's far from impossible.

Either Via/Zhaoxin or a mobile player like PowerVR (although I wouldn't mind someone like Matrox trying their hand again and they are a current AMD semi custom user) could potentially find their own niche, of course it's not exactly a risk-free investment...
 
Harlequin said:
T

hey wont, it`ll come in at the `market` price no the fictional FE msrp. Its been 18 days since the last `drop`.
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I think that's most likely what will happen, but I think there's an outside chance that something quite different will happen. Intel is in an unusual position in this market. The dGPU market is a duopoly that Intel is seeking to enter as a third player, but Intel is already a very big player in related markets. They're a known name. They have suitable distribution networks already in place. They have agreements with other companies. They very plausibly claim to have a dGPU product that's competitive in the budget to low midrange segments of the market. In short, they're very well placed to be a major player in the dGPU market if they decide to really push for that and if they can make and sell enough and if they get enough coverage.

They could enter the dGPU market with a couple of budget cards and a "flagship" card that's low midrange and make them in fairly small quantities and sell them at the current vastly inflated prices because they can. That would get them some sales, mostly from people who'd prefer the more mature products from AMD or nvidia but can't buy any of them due to lack of supply and so go with the untried product from Intel as being better than nothing. Intel would mainly be the second or third choice, for when the preferred choice is unavailable. They'd get some coverage, probably mostly along the lines of "Not a bad choice, but not the best choice". They'd get a small market share.

But if they could enter the dGPU market with a couple of budget cards and a "flagship" card that's low midrange and make them in significant quantities and sell them at a price that's high (e.g. £400 for a low midrange card a little below a 3070) rather than vastly inflated they'd immediately get a huge market share and a vast amount of extremely positive publicity, massive amounts of free advertising that couldn't be bought at any price. Buying it would be the only sensible choice and Intel would be the knight in shining armour riding in glory to rescue gamers. They'd be lauded all over the net, from 30 second videos of people squealing on TikTok to 30 page highly detailed reviews from major hardware websites, every one of them singing Intel's praises. Instant big time entry into a market that was previously a duopoly. That's good for business. They might do it if they can. Maybe. If they can.
 
Jacky60 said:
I'm quite sure there's a huge amount of market manipulation and cartel like behaviour going on. These companies are better served by agreeing to keep prices high than by competing with each other and there are multiple excuses used for why prices go high and remain high for months or years afterwards. [..]
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Even the most ridiculous excuses are being trotted out. Like, for example, the increase in the price of copper. Which has increased the cost of making a graphics card by maybe as much as 50p but which has been falsely portrayed as a significant increase in costs that justifies a huge increase in selling price. Lying is profitable when the companies involved agree to lie together.
 
Jacky60 said:
I'm quite sure there's a huge amount of market manipulation and cartel like behaviour going on. These companies are better served by agreeing to keep prices high than by competing with each other and there are multiple excuses used for why prices go high and remain high for months or years afterwards. It's broken capitalism and it's quite widespread especially in markets with fewer players where it serves all manufacturers to cooperate rather than compete. Then you get the army of paid undercover shills who argue that the new high price is somehow justified because of 'reasons' few of which are significant long term but can be used as an excuse to keep milking the consumer. The phone market was like this with Nokia and then Apple until we got more players on the scene (from China) who were willing to compete rather than collude and cheat their customers.
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Agreed and sadly true! :(
 
Pottsey said:
Intel is already no1 in graphic chip market share in the PC market. More people use intel graphics then NVidia. If we look at the entire PC market its more like for graphics

Intel 69%
Nivida 17%
AMD 15%

Intel is already eating away at Nvidia market share Intel in Q4, 2019 at 63%, Q3, 2020 62% and Q4 2020, 69%. This will only increase once Arc comes out I expect.

On top of that Intel have brought out all remaining TSMC 3nm production for GPU use which will give them a major advantage. I don't think its going to be a problem that Intel will give up due to not selling enough. They already sell enough.
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we're clearly talking about dgpu here
 
Pitta said:
we're clearly talking about dgpu here
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I was talking about graphics chips and how given the massive market share Intel has they are unlikely to give up on the dgpu as it is cross developed and shares costs with the inbuilt graphic chips. So they are not going to give up due to not making enough money when a large part of the development cost is already covered and making profit.
 
thats not bad it will be interesting how it behaves with the new intel cpus as well

I bet they have a performance boost on intel over amd
 
Game said:
thats not bad it will be interesting how it behaves with the new intel cpus as well

I bet they have a performance boost on intel over amd
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While entirely possible, you'd hope Intel would sort out their drivers before they start thinking how they could architecture their drivers to work better on their CPUs and AMD's!

Still, if ARC got a huge driver re-write (as we would hope and expect) then maybe when they sat down to spec it they certainly would have gone for things which would favour their CPUs.
 
I did read if you have onboard graphics it will work in concert with the discreet card to do some tasks but how this will work in practice who knows
 
KompuKare said:
While entirely possible, you'd hope Intel would sort out their drivers before they start thinking how they could architecture their drivers to work better on their CPUs and AMD's!

Still, if ARC got a huge driver re-write (as we would hope and expect) then maybe when they sat down to spec it they certainly would have gone for things which would favour their CPUs.
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Intels drivers for integrated GPUs are pretty dire, I wouldn't fancy running their dGPU drivers.
 
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