Intel Discrete GPU Codenamed Arctic Sound Will Have Gaming Variant, Landing in 2020

FloatingPoint · 15 May 2018 at 15:10

V F said:
What the hell... It was bad enough the first time from PPC to x86. I remember the backlash.

The backlash from die hard Power PC proponents was minor compared to the buy in from PC users who could see that core architecture was where the high end performance was best at the time. That was a classic Jobs keynote with the Power Mac running OSX on x86. Fundamental to the rebirth of Apple and buy in from corporate IT. This was the real halo effect.

Samwell · 15 May 2018 at 15:13

Vince said:
I have no idea what this patent exchange is all about. They have a cross licensing agreement for x86/ AMD x64 but as far as i'm aware its not an open book on amd patents and this is the sort of thing I would probably hear about given I work for the firm that managed IBM/Global foundries transfer of IP. I very much doubt either company would simply open the book on their GPU IP to the other.

I meant the cross licensing agreements. With Nvidias cross licensing they are allowed to use any nvidia patent till the end of the agreement, which was 2017 and as for AMD, everything is included there.

1.33 “Processor” shall mean any Integrated Circuit or combination of Integrated Circuits capable of processing digital data, such as a microprocessor or coprocessor (including, without limitation, a math coprocessor, graphics coprocessor, or digital signal processor).

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2488/000119312509236705/dex102.htm

They even mention that processor means any processing unit including gpus.

Patents are really no problem for intel.

Kaapstad · 15 May 2018 at 15:30

It is about time intel or someone else merged the worlds of GPU and CPU to run on one chip and found a new operating system that can run on it.

MooMoo444 · 15 May 2018 at 15:52

Intel have a lot of money, if anyone has the power to challenge Nvidia, it is Intel. Hopefully competitive, as it means cheaper products for everyone.

Vince · 15 May 2018 at 15:57

Kaapstad said:
about time intel or someone else merged the worlds

Samwell said:
I meant the cross licensing agreements. With Nvidias cross licensing they are allowed to use any nvidia patent till the end of the agreement, which was 2017 and as for AMD, everything is included there.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2488/000119312509236705/dex102.htm

They even mention that processor means any processing unit including gpus.

Patents are really no problem for intel.

The agreement covers the use of X86/x64 Instruction sets and chips that use those instruction sets... Unless I am mistaken the GPU tech of AMD does not enter the agreement as the agreement is specific to cross licensing of processors with those instruction sets.

Happy to be wrong here but am fairly sure its not blanket.

Samwell · 15 May 2018 at 16:15

Vince said:
The agreement covers the use of X86/x64 Instruction sets and chips that use those instruction sets... Unless I am mistaken the GPU tech of AMD does not enter the agreement as the agreement is specific to cross licensing of processors with those instruction sets.

Happy to be wrong here but am fairly sure its not blanket.

I posted a link, which shows that it covers it. Please tell me, where inside the document it's written, that it's only x86. All chipsets are of course also included and that's not x86.

Vince · 15 May 2018 at 16:23

Samwell said:
I posted a link, which shows that it covers it. Please tell me, where inside the document it's written, that it's only x86. All chipsets are of course also included and that's not x86.

I read it and it doesn't but like many things some of the language in there is ambiguous at best. As I said I work for one of the oldest patent firms in london so will ask one of our tech attorneys here to clarify what it actually means. One thing I know for sure is that these agreements do not give intel or amd the right to copy a design outright, I mean if they did would AMD have been trailing Intel as they have for the last 10 years? I think not, they would have just ripped off Intels architecture and released it as their own without any recourse.

Samwell · 15 May 2018 at 16:45

Of course it doesn't give them the right to copy a gpu. My point was just, that Intel is in a comfortable patent situation. Even if they couldn't use AMDs patents, they still have a lot of design space because of the Nvidia license agreement and their own patents. Apple designed their Gpu with extremely limited own patents. It's all possible, if you push enough money into it.

humbug · 15 May 2018 at 16:55

This is great news

Vince · 15 May 2018 at 17:31

Samwell said:
Of course it doesn't give them the right to copy a gpu. My point was just, that Intel is in a comfortable patent situation. Even if they couldn't use AMDs patents, they still have a lot of design space because of the Nvidia license agreement and their own patents. Apple designed their Gpu with extremely limited own patents. It's all possible, if you push enough money into it.

I agree. I think I said further up that I have no doubt Intel have the engineering experience and critical thinking to pull it off even if there are a few hurdles to get over. Question is will they finally manage to deliver a complete software and hardware solution that actually works? My guess is they fall short.

Troezar · 15 May 2018 at 19:10

Vince said:
I agree. I think I said further up that I have no doubt Intel have the engineering experience and critical thinking to pull it off even if there are a few hurdles to get over. Question is will they finally manage to deliver a complete software and hardware solution that actually works? My guess is they fall short.

If I was then with their resources I'd just buy the expertise in. They could outbid any other employer.

Vince · 15 May 2018 at 19:59

Troezar said:
If I was then with their resources I'd just buy the expertise in. They could outbid any other employer.

I think that is exactly what they are doing, they took Raja Koduri from AMD and it doesn't really matter if people think it is a good or bad move the point is that they are taking on experienced GPU architects. Whether they have the right people or not I guess remains to be seen. Interesting times for sure, I mean in your heart you really want another one of those AMD 9700 Pro moments (I cant think of any other gpu that was so much faster than the previous gen) where a card comes out from the competition and absolutely smashes it and raises the bar.

Kaapstad · 16 May 2018 at 02:01

Vince said:
The agreement covers the use of X86/x64 Instruction sets and chips that use those instruction sets... Unless I am mistaken the GPU tech of AMD does not enter the agreement as the agreement is specific to cross licensing of processors with those instruction sets.

Happy to be wrong here but am fairly sure its not blanket.

What I mean by merging the CPU and GPU worlds is to dump X86/x64 altogether and find an operating system that can use GPU type chips.

Troezar · 16 May 2018 at 05:19

Vince said:
I think that is exactly what they are doing, they took Raja Koduri from AMD and it doesn't really matter if people think it is a good or bad move the point is that they are taking on experienced GPU architects. Whether they have the right people or not I guess remains to be seen. Interesting times for sure, I mean in your heart you really want another one of those AMD 9700 Pro moments (I cant think of any other gpu that was so much faster than the previous gen) where a card comes out from the competition and absolutely smashes it and raises the bar.

I had a 9700pro and a 9800 I think. Very good cards and add you say so fast. Sure they were about £300 which I thought was very expensive!

Kirby Wurm · 16 May 2018 at 08:51

Troezar said:
I had a 9700pro and a 9800 I think. Very good cards and add you say so fast. Sure they were about £300 which I thought was very expensive!

The 9700 Pro was indeed a beast, I remember reading the reviews and being stunned. Ended up with a 9800 PRO in my first rig. I can't see Intel coming out swinging so heavily but their presence in the dGPU space is welcome.

willhub · 16 May 2018 at 09:46

Imagine an iGPU with the power of a GTX1080. That'd be a dream.

beany_bot · 16 May 2018 at 09:59

So much negativity in this thread...
"wont happen, will be rubbish, cant do software, drivers will suck".

Jesus! lay up a bit. Lets at least look at this as the potentially very positive news it is. Nvidia desperately need competition. AMD isn't providing it. Lets hope Intel can!

KillBoY_UK · 16 May 2018 at 11:43

Vince said:
I think that is exactly what they are doing, they took Raja Koduri from AMD and it doesn't really matter if people think it is a good or bad move the point is that they are taking on experienced GPU architects. Whether they have the right people or not I guess remains to be seen. Interesting times for sure, I mean in your heart you really want another one of those AMD 9700 Pro moments (I cant think of any other gpu that was so much faster than the previous gen) where a card comes out from the competition and absolutely smashes it and raises the bar.

8800GTX ?

Gregster · 16 May 2018 at 12:22

beany_bot said:
So much negativity in this thread...
"wont happen, will be rubbish, cant do software, drivers will suck".

Jesus! lay up a bit. Lets at least look at this as the potentially very positive news it is. Nvidia desperately need competition. AMD is providing it. Lets hope Intel can!

Indeed. Let's all sing the praises of Intel in the dGPU market. They will be amazing

beany_bot · 16 May 2018 at 12:31

Gregster said:
Indeed. Let's all sing the praises of Intel in the dGPU market. They will be amazing

I didn't say, or insinuate "sing praises". I merely said lets not be all negative about something that could benefit all of us.