Intersex / transgender etc competing. Thoughts?

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Okay its a tough one I think but having seen a few stories regarding Caster Semenya where would you draw the line?

A bit info: Semenya is intersex/hermaphrodite/hyper-androgenic (not certain which is the correct term as they all are used) with no womb nor ovaries and internal testes leading to testosterone levels 3 times that of an average woman. Basically if a female athlete increased their testosterone level via injections to match Semenya's they would be banned.

I believe a half-way house measure was brought in which Semenya's testosterone levels were decreased, her performance naturally decreased. This was ended and Semenya again started to dominate.

So where do you draw the line on who competes as a man/woman? Clearly Semenya has a clear advantage but is this the same as been born with the right genetics like Bolt?

For myself and probably open to been called various names I find it difficult to see a person with testes albeit internal and 3 times the level of testosterone of a 'normal' woman competing as a female in athletics.

I must admit typing that makes me feel uncomfortable as I would like to think I am a firm believer in each to their own etc. but ones right to choose doesn't seem so black and white in this particular circumstance.

So am I alone in this, am I a neanderthal bloke out of touch with the modern world?
 
Shouldn't be allowed to compete within either the strictly male or strictly female catagories and instead should have the right to compete in a new third.

This third category i will call, everyone. Everyone is free to enter regardless of gender.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
Shouldn't be allowed to compete within either the strictly male or strictly female catagories and instead should have the right to compete in a new third.

This third category i will call, everyone. Everyone is free to enter regardless of gender.
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Would you really get that many competitors if it's just limited to ladyman's?
 
It's a difficult issue, you want to allow everyone to be able to compete on one hand but on the other you've got 1 competitor basically naturally doping and robbing other athletes of medals and a living.

Personally I don't think she should be able to compete with other women. Where she does compete though who knows...the whole situation with her though is a circus and every medal she wins the same questions start being asked of her, I'm surprised she still wants to run to be honest it must be embarrassing/emotionally painful to have your gender questioned constantly.
 
There was another woman in the 10,000m called Apricot or something who, well let's say, didn't look particularly feminine. She ran off for half the race which set a blistering pace and the WR was broken by some other woman then.
 
Semenya's numbers died off when she was on a plan of testosterone control, her numbers went through the roof again when she came off testosterone control due to stupid rulings.

There is an option for intersexed athletes, compete with men with similar testosterone production, reduce testosterone production to normal range for women and compete with them, or create an intersexed/transexual olympics and see how much support it gets, how much money they can make and how successful it is. I would think given the last option after one meet they'd choose to take drugs or compete with the men.

Keeping sport relatively competitive is the only way it works. Would you tune in to womens races if one or two people can clean sweep a half dozen events at every meet and be 10% faster than all the rest with 'normal' range testosterone.

It seems fairly simple genetic test, intersexed or not, insane test levels, determine if they are test insensitive or not, if not, then give them the option to reduce test or compete with men. The only reason they don't want to do either is they have a monumentally unfair advantage in competing with women while having 3 times higher test levels.

May as well follow the same argument that if a women chooses to take test because they want to look more male, that is their choice and shouldn't be stopped from competing, so drug cheating should be allowed.

Again, make a drug using olympics and a transgendered/intersexed olympics, if they can compete with male/female categories, good on them, if they can't, they have to choose to compete in the existing categories or not be in sport.
 
robfosters said:
Would you really get that many competitors if it's just limited to ladyman's?
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It is not limited to anyone, Men, women and everyone in between would be able to enter this third category. This way, if there any disputes then the contestant can explain why they dont want to compete against men while defending why they should be allowed to compete in the women's with the same argument.

If you limited it to trans, you would have to draw the line somewhere and that can also be complicated and limit it to even fewer participants.
 
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Keep women in the kitchen and be done...............



Tongue in cheek comment



Is she defined by a Legal gender. If so then that is the group she should be competing against.

If that means she is on her own and wins ALL the golds then so be it. It may inspire others.
 
Like disability sport, or age groups, Female sport is a protected category (i.e. it has a restriction in place to allow women to compete fairly). For most, the distinction between male and female is straightforward but for some, it's not.

A line needs to be drawn and, unfortunately, that line may mean that a small number will be excluded. There's a reason most of the records for women's power events (including sprints and middle distance) are so old - male androgens offer a huge uptick for women athletes. Past doping programs have killed record progression.

My feeling is that Semenya shouldn't be allowed to compete with the women. It would be sad for her, but it's sad for many others that they aren't competing on a level playing field.
 
Like i said, make a new category:

Mens

Womens

Free for everyone:

I am tired of a certain group being excluded, as i think it takes away some of the entertainment and limits our progression. Yes i am disgruntled we don't have a steroid/doping catagory!

Everyone gets the right to compete but not everyone is guaranteed a chance to win. To people who say 'hey, thats unfair, how can i have a good chance of winning against roid abusers or men in this category?!' Well, this is a no limits category not a medals for everyone category.
 
I'm not sure there's much appetite for watching a bunch of roid-poppers lumbering around the track.

Why dilute the main product by splitting off a proportion into a third category?

And it wouldn't solve issues like Semenya, as she would still rather compete in the women's category.
 
I would rather compete in the womens catagory but i wouldn't be allowed as not only do i have an unfair advantage (despite me being worse than them) but i do not come under that catagory.

The roid thing was more of a joke but i definitely think there should be a third catagory which is can include all genders. Does not matter if she wants to compete in the womens, she is XY and should be classified as such in competitions. If we class people by what dangles and what doesn't, we might as well just tuck n tape our dangles to compete in the womens catagories in cases like this. Participants from the mens and women's can still join in this third catagory but people who win in one wont double up in medals on the other.
 
Fortunately out sends to be a rare thing.

I mean she obviously has a significant advantage when left unchecked but it's not as though she is 'cheating' she naturally has an advantage, basketball or vollyball players aren't penalised for being tall although it could be seen as an advantage etc.

It's a bit of a can of worms whatever they do (or don't do).
 
Guerrilla said:
Fortunately out sends to be a rare thing.

I mean she obviously has a significant advantage when left unchecked but it's not as though she is 'cheating' she naturally has an advantage, basketball or vollyball players aren't penalised for being tall although it could be seen as an advantage etc.

It's a bit of a can of worms whatever they do (or don't do).
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Whilst true it's a very wrong analogy, since basketball players are not categorised by height where athletes are categorised by gender. She is neither and thus shouldn't be allowed to compete fullstop.
Women who have a high tendency towards higher testosterone probably are gold medal winners if they combine it with talent, but to have a completely different organ inside of you that sets you apart from the rest of the gender is in my opinion, putting you outside of the rules and categories required to compete.
 
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ChroniC said:
Whilst true it's a very wrong analogy, since basketball players are not categorised by height where athletes are categorised by gender. She is neither and thus shouldn't be allowed to compete fullstop.
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I don't see any reason she shouldn't be allowed to compete with the men.

And that she has a 'natural' advantage ignores the way men also have a natural advantage - and they're excluded.

The problem for Semenya is that she's in-between male and female. She has enough of the advantages of masculinity to give a substantial edge over women, but not enough to compete with men.

It feels a little monstrous to insist on corrective surgery, or hormone suppression medication just to be allowed to compete, but there's no easy solution to the issue.
 
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