Is a modern GPU (eg: NVidia 4070) a total waste of time on an old CPU (eg: Intel I7 4790K)? - Anyone running a modern(ish) GPU on an old CPU?

[Tetras]

Unless I'm not understanding this, here's two example of people running a 4070 on an Asus Z97-A (like mine) on a BIOS dated 2015/04/27 which is older than mine???

With my experience of old cards and boards, it's not an exact science. Some cards react differently and it can depend if you're using CSM/UEFI, though I do find those profiles helpful.

Updating to the latest before upgrading to something that didn't exist when the board was made is a prudent move.

Q: Would I expect all my BIOS settings to be reset/changed if I do a bios update? Or will they be kept/retained?

I would always assume they'll be lost.

 

[Havana_UK]

Consider buying a generation old bundle from MM? I upgraded from a 4770K OC'd to 4.5GHz paired with a 2070S, to a 2nd hand 12600K/Mobo/RAM bundle I got from the MM for £320. It was a HUGE jump in performance!

I recently upgraded the GPU fto 7900XT, so my total spend was £1,020, and I've pretty much doubled (or more) the performance I did have.

 

[NeilF]

Interesting...

Consider buying a generation old bundle from MM? I upgraded from a 4770K OC'd to 4.5GHz paired with a 2070S, to a 2nd hand 12600K/Mobo/RAM bundle I got from the MM for £320. It was a HUGE jump in performance!

I recently upgraded the GPU fto 7900XT, so my total spend was £1,020, and I've pretty much doubled (or more) the performance I did have.

I bought a PC from the MM many years ago, and it was a total dog... And I mean a bad bad dog!

 

[Quartz]

A whole new system (which is what we're then talking about) is like £1500, plus all the migration/setup hassle etc.

How come? Unless you have a proprietary system all you need is CPU, motherboard, and RAM.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming B650-Plus WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6K0-AS) = £149.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 7700 Eight Core 5.30GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DV-AM) = £308.99
• 1 x Corsair Vengeance EXPO 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C36 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit (SKU: MEM-CRS-00996) = £119.98

Total: £578.96 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

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[NeilF]

This is the first example I've found of the 4790K with a modern card playing Cod:MW2 - DMZ Al Mazrah @4m30s -

It actually comes across as less smooth than mine on my 1070 I'd say, but it gives a good idea of the 'judder' that this particular game/map gives. Vondel is much smoother on my system. But the fact that 4790 with a 3050 is also seemingly struggling seems like bad news for just a GPU upgrade (as some of you have said).

 

[NeilF]

How come? Unless you have a proprietary system all you need is CPU, motherboard, and RAM.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming B650-Plus WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6K0-AS) = £149.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 7700 Eight Core 5.30GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DV-AM) = £308.99
• 1 x Corsair Vengeance EXPO 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C36 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit (SKU: MEM-CRS-00996) = £119.98

Total: £578.96 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

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Are you suggesting that's just plug and play into my existing system? ie: Plug in the new MB, CPU and memory into all my existing stuff, HD and OS and all, and turn it on? No fresh install of windows etc? Sounds unlikely? Hence a whole new harddrive and OS install etc. Given the amount of stuff and configuration I have I'd ideally like to have any new machine running along side my old machine until I know the new machine has replaced everthing the old machine has.

 

[Quartz]

Are you suggesting that's just plug and play into my existing system?

You'll need to pre-download drivers but otherwise, yes, you can just move a Windows installation, though a clean install of Windows is always best, and Windows will probably want relicensing. I have done it myself.

I have I'd ideally like to have any new machine running along side my old machine until I know the new machine has replaces everthing the old machine has.

You are prudent. So add in a M.2 drive - not expensive.

 

[NeilF]

You'll need to pre-download drivers but otherwise, yes, you can just move a Windows installation, though a clean install of Windows is always best, and Windows will probably want relicensing. I have done it myself.



You are prudent. So add in a M.2 drive - not expensive.

Yeh... All understood, but I really would (for my peace of mind) need to run new and old at the sametime IMHO. ie: After a few hours if I realise I need to get an app, or config, or settings, or just something off the old machine which requires me to run it... Then?

And then won't I need a new CPU cooler/heatsink etc etc?

So it sort of means setting up a whole new machine, power supply, OS and case and all. But it means I'm left with a fully working old machine which I can then decommission/sell/give away after a few weeks as a working entity.

And a whole new machine isn't such a bad thing considering my PSU, fans etc etc etc are now nearly 10yrs old etc.

 

[ooStevo]

4930K is a LGA2011 CPU, 4790K is LGA1150.

Technically the 4790K has approx. 13% higher turbo clock and ~15% higher IPC than a 4930K so in theory for games which don't use more than 4 core / 8 threads it would be faster, though the 4930K or 1650/1680 Xeons will overclock better, have more cache and if paired up with the right memory can claw back the disadvantage in many newer games and anything which actually needs 6+ cores they will be faster. But kind of irrelevant here as OP can't put one in their motherboard.

Yes but the 4930 * can be OC'ed,even if just a few hundred MHZ,and I'm assuming the 4930 has much more cache and possibly tweaked performance/features so it will be faster all around. * Just re-read and it's different sockets apparently. So what's the best CPU for lga1150?

 

[Joxeon]

This is the first example I've found of the 4790K with a modern card playing Cod:MW2 - DMZ Al Mazrah @4m30s -

It actually comes across as less smooth than mine on my 1070 I'd say, but it gives a good idea of the 'judder' that this particular game/map gives. Vondel is much smoother on my system. But the fact that 4790 with a 3050 is also seemingly struggling seems like bad news for just a GPU upgrade (as some of you have said).

A 3050 is the same speed as a 1070 though but has half the Bus width 128 vs 256 and only runs at pcie gen 4.0 x8 which means pcie 3.0 x8 on an older system so not surprised the frame times are worse.

 

[Bizarre]

I've read through this thread with interest and at first I thought buying the 4070 would give you a marked improvement in performance, albeit, it would be bottlenecked largely, but still, a marked improvement on your current card. However, after reading the thread fully, I now think it'd be a wasted upgrade, unless you upgrade the rest of your system too, i.e motherboard, ram, CPU.

If you are deadset on wanting to keep your current machine intact, then obviously you need to upgrade everything, not just the motherboard , CPU, RAM, and card. Without wanting to sound rude, you seem to be looking for a solution that isn't there, when basically you have two choices at this point, buy the 4070, be disappointed in its massively bottlenecked performance, or upgrade your full system from top to toe. If cost is an issue, like it is for most of us, then do like most of us do, which is make do and mend with your current system, whilst saving for a new one. Look at it this way, your current system is almost ten years old, it owes you nothing, I dare say you've had your monies worth out of it. To be honest, regardless of whether you were looking at a new graphics card or not, if you're a gamer, which you clearly are, then it's probably time to upgrade the lot anyway - the performance improvement could be massive for not a great deal of money, bearing in mind you were buying the 4070 anyway.

 

[Rroff]

Yes but the 4930 * can be OC'ed,even if just a few hundred MHZ,and I'm assuming the 4930 has much more cache and possibly tweaked performance/features so it will be faster all around. * Just re-read and it's different sockets apparently. So what's the best CPU for lga1150?

4790K unfortunately is pretty much the best - there is a couple of 5xxx series which fit the socket one of which is supposedly better but I don't have any experience with those. Still 4 core 8 thread though

 

[Quartz]

Yeh... All understood, but I really would (for my peace of mind) need to run new and old at the sametime IMHO. ie: After a few hours if I realise I need to get an app, or config, or settings, or just something off the old machine which requires me to run it... Then?

Network the two together and point the new PC at the data drive (or area) of the old PC. Or just transplant the data drive.

And then won't I need a new CPU cooler/heatsink etc etc?

The Ryzen 7700 comes with an adequate heatsink. Sufficient for initial use. You can transfer your old heatsink if it's compatible or there's an adapter - check with the manufacturer.

And a whole new machine isn't such a bad thing considering my PSU, fans etc etc etc are now nearly 10yrs old etc.

Yes, if your PSU is 10 years' old then it's time to replace it, but it would be time to replace it anyway.

 

[ooStevo]

4970K unfortunately is pretty much the best - there is a couple of 5xxx series which fit the socket one of which is supposedly better but I don't have any experience with those. Still 4 core 8 thread though

So LGA2011 maxes out at 4c/8t!? I find that hard to believe. I need to do a search on this.

 

[Rroff]

So LGA2011 maxes out at 4c/8t!? I find that hard to believe. I need to do a search on this.

LGA1150 maxes out a 4c/8t, LGA2011 can go to 12c/24t (or even multi-socket).

 

[ooStevo]

So i just had a quick look,and 3960X,4930k and even 24 core Xeons are supported on 2011. Although i understand there were variations of the 2011 socket,i'm pretty confident you could slap at least a 6c/12t in there. *

* I may be getting my knickers in a twist here. What does the OP have again?

 

[Rroff]

* I may be getting my knickers in a twist here. What does the OP have again?

OP has 4790K which is LGA1150, if OP had a 2011 platform it would make things a lot easier.

 

[Tetras]

* I may be getting my knickers in a twist here. What does the OP have again?

Both CPUs have the same generation number, but they're completely different.

What the OP has (4790K) is a 4th generation CPU (Haswell) for desktops (1150). Manufactured during the Intel quad core stagnation era. Intel didn't release a six core for their boring desktop line until the 8th generation.

4930K is 3rd generation (Ivy Bridge) for HEDT (2011-1), hence the higher core counts. Intel were making 6 core CPUs for HEDT from the 1st generation (i7-970, socket 1366).

 

[Rroff]

HEDT (2011-1)

It is confusing as the 4930K is 2011 V2 (3930K is V1), but the same IPC (actually not quite but close) to the 3000 series desktop chips, but with more cache, more overclocking headroom and quad channel memory configuration so can often claw back the difference. V1-4 have many chips with the same name just to be confusing as well.

EDIT: Kind of a moot point in this thread though as it isn't an option, but I can say from experience of having both a 1070 and 3070 on a system of that era a 4070 is wasted on it especially in some newer games which can take advantage of 6c/12t or even 8c/16t.

 

[ooStevo]

Both CPUs have the same generation number, but they're completely different.

What the OP has (4790K) is a 4th generation CPU (Haswell) for desktops (1150). Manufactured during the Intel quad core stagnation era. Intel didn't release a six core for their boring desktop line until the 8th generation.

4930K is 3rd generation (Ivy Bridge) for HEDT (2011-1), hence the higher core counts. Intel were making 6 core CPUs for HEDT from the 1st generation (i7-970, socket 1366).

Yeah i just looked it up. Imo that's shocking that 2011 mobos only support 4c/8t max. I guess they were locking things down after lots of people were putting Xeons into 775 and X58 1366 mobos. I have a HP X58 mobo,i've been tempted to stick a W3690 in there,but seeing as i have Ryzen now it's probably a waste of time.

I mean 1150. Jeez I need to hit the hay