Is David Moyes a good manager?

Youstolemyname

Youstolemyname

Youstolemyname

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I'm just curious on the opinion of folk as to the pedigree of Moyes. With little to no money he has kep Everton plodding along but winning precisely nothing along the way.

If he had the unlimited money cheat mode active like Chelsea and City do you think he has the tactical nous to cut it at the top level and manage the big egos that go along with it? Or is he a 4-5-1 hoof merchant who isn't used to managing huge talents who have won titles/cups.

I'm not convinced by him myself; despite Everton plodding along they have never been a joy to watch under his stewardship. He's a Scottish Sam Allardyce in my opinion.

But what next for the ginger prince? He's stalling on a new deal at Everton. Does he have his sights on a big club in the summer and could he cut it at the top?

OcUK, it's over to you ;)
 
When he's not under pressure in big games and the times we haven't isolated a forward we can play decent football. All other times he seems so intent on winning the middle of the park while someone toils away up front running themselves into the ground for little.

For me he does well with smaller signings and makes them worth much more, all except strikers. He takes them and destroys them. Wipes out any confidence in front of goal and makes them feed off very little. The list of woeful attempts with strikers is almost laughable.

I don't think he's a hoof merchant it's just not tidy at times. I find his tactics with forwards frustrating at times but I can't see anyone else taking us forward with what we have. That he has us in the top 10 quite regularly is enough for me. I don't think we can progress until Kenwright has gone when someone can be found.

I do think he will get a stint as Man U manager as a scape goat for no one being able to carry the mantle directly after Fergie with Fergie watching from the sidelines putting his 2 cents to the directors/board all the time. To start with they will need someone to put up with that and I think it will be moyes.
 
I think hes a decent enough manager, but like a few managers when he has money to BIG money to spend i think he gets it wrong more than he gets it right.

he works better with a tightish budget, saying that i do think hes done well with everton, and think the turning point came when the rules where changed for the champs league to allow liverpool in as defending champions.

saying that even if it had got investment interested i'm sure old bill would have managed to find a way to scare em off, so who knows :(.

think they've started to play better football over the last couple of seasons.
 
I'm not sure if he would make it at the top level as he hasn't been tried out at that level, he would need a chance there but stupidly in this country we don't give anyone a chance. We expect them to be ready made super managers without thinking about how they will get that experience. Foreign countries give managers a chance at top level (Mourinho, Boas, Guardiola) and get more great coaches. We don't give anyone a chance and are surprised by the poor quality of our managers, go figure. :rolleyes:

On topic of Moyes he's the best thing to ever happen to Everton and if the moron fans (not sure if they are a vocal minority or the majority) have there way and get rid of him they'll do a Newcastle post Bobby or a Villa post O'Neil and plummet down the table. Moyes is the one thing keeping Everton consistently punching above their weight, Everton without him would be bottom half/relegation fodder club.
 
I don't really see what more he can do. The teams that regularly finish ahead of Everton have far bigger budgets, bigger stadiums, bigger squads and/or better players.

If anything he's punching above his weight when you look at clubs like Sunderland and Newcastle below them which highlights how important stability within a club is.
 
The trouble is it's a job with little pressure and outside of Fergies his is probably the most secure job in the league. Perhaps he needs a fresh challenge. You can see him going somewhere though and getting the sack inside of 12 months and then he might regret it, but maybe he needs that test personally.

If he finishes 4-8th he gets the plaudits and if he finished 17th the fans are happy to stay up, he literally has no pressure other than that he generates himself. The board wouldn't sack him.
 
Regardless of how he may (or may not) do at a top club he is certainly a good manager, managing a team like Everton with not a lot of money and keeping them in the top 10 year upon year in the worlds most competitive league is far from easy.

You don't need to manage a top club and win trophies to be a good manager.
 
I'm out at the moment so may post longer reply later if I can be bothered but here's a summary of my feelings.

Yes and no, main things he's great at setting a game plan although very limited but he can't adapt for toffee. Which is why I don't think he'd get the United job or if he did he wouldn't be there long. Wenger and especially SAF have adapted and changed, we've played the same football, same tactics under Moyes. I guess it doesn't help that he's a defender and the majority of the backroom staff are defenders as well.

Our current game plan can be summed up in one sentence, "exploit the left with Baines and Pienaar, play through Fellaini"... Cancel them out like United did and Moyes is clueless and the players are so robotic apart from Mirallas, that they can't create anything.

Re Danny's point about pressure, Moyes has the easiest job in the whole of the football league. He's on £65k a week, the board season goals are to avoid relegation. And that's it, he's under no pressure to perform, so when it comes to the crunch... Cup matches etc he 'bottles it', as the current choice of phrase is.

There's no doubt he's done a superb job and changed the club around, can he do better? I don't think so given the current financial situation, could he do better if that was different? I'm not too sure he would to be honest, but that's a complete unknown.

People say we couldn't do better than Moyes but why not? Who would have guessed that some Scot coming in from Preston would have took us from relegation fighters to top 6 and top 4 fighters. Obviously it's a risk but we haven't won anything under Moyes, so if we won the league cup or FA cup under a new manager even if we finished like 12th that's more than Moyes will have 'achieved'.
 
mmj_uk said:
You don't need to manage a top club and win trophies to be a good manager.
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Surely the purpose of a football club is to win trophies? If you don't win trophies then you aren't a good manager, in my opinion.

And I am sure Moyes has had plenty of offers to manager other clubs but lacks the guts to take on the task. His Everton job is a cushy, pressure free number and he knows it.
 
He's a very good manager but he has gotten very very comfortable with his place at Everton.

He's been a big part in getting Everton established as a top 8 team, pushing the super rich teams in league performances, going to Europe occasionally, generally buying well (ie for the future, not many Everton buys have been all that short term one way or another) but the whole set up lacks that final step for bigger things.

It's not limited to Moyes as Everton could do with a little more cash, one or two different/game changing players and so on, but Moyes could think up a decent plan B, find a little more motivation for the players and not just be content with maybe Europe from 6th.

Given a bigger set up I'm sure he could do something good and Everton just need some fresh ideas about the place
 
Youstolemyname said:
Surely the purpose of a football club is to win trophies? If you don't win trophies then you aren't a good manager, in my opinion.
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It's a somewhat silly point of view as football today isn't like 30+ years ago, heck even 10-15 years ago when a lot of clubs had a chance at winning things. Now 3-4 clubs have a chance at winning the top prizes and whilst you get the odd "upset" (Birmingham, Swansea etc) it is hard for most managers outside the top few clubs winning a thing.

This doesn't mean that every manager outside the top 4 isn't a good manager perhaps not the best manager, but a manager can still be good.
 
Youstolemyname said:
And I am sure Moyes has had plenty of offers to manager other clubs but lacks the guts to take on the task.
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Such as?

I don't think he's had any offers from anyone above where Everton currently sit, do you? Why would he take a job at a lower placed club? I can't think of a single club other than Villa when Oneil left, but that was hardly a step up. There was mild speculation spurs would come in for him when harry got the boot but they quickly got AVB.

I can't think of any club that has actually come in for him.
 
Youstolemyname said:
Surely the purpose of a football club is to win trophies? If you don't win trophies then you aren't a good manager, in my opinion.
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Wouldn't that depend on the club? The EPL (and indeed most leagues) have a few clubs who are likely to regularly be in contention for the top prizes, the majority of the rest might get to a final very occasionally but that doesn't necessarily mean that the manager hasn't done well with what is available.

I'm sure that any football club would like to be winning trophies but realistically not all of them can do that, for some simply keeping out of the relegation zone for the season counts as a success - whether that's because they've got limited resources, have been woefully mismanaged or otherwise. Not all football clubs are starting from the same point and they do not all have the same potential.

Youstolemyname said:
And I am sure Moyes has had plenty of offers to manager other clubs but lacks the guts to take on the task. His Everton job is a cushy, pressure free number and he knows it.
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You can certainly argue that he needs to move clubs to test himself further but there may be valid reasons why he hasn't. It's possible that none of the job offers have been all that appealing - not enough control being offered, a lack of stability, not any real increase in spending power, a lack of any greater potential or other problems. Maybe the very best managers wouldn't be phased by that but I don't think we can say too much about Moyes in that regard yet apart from noting that he's done consistently well on a limited budget and brought a measure of stability to Everton - he might or might not do well if he had more money to spend but I wouldn't think it entirely unreasonable for him to get the chance to try.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Such as?

I don't think he's had any offers from anyone above where Everton currently sit, do you? Why would he take a job at a lower placed club? I can't think of a single club other than Villa when Oneil left, but that was hardly a step up. There was mild speculation spurs would come in for him when harry got the boot but they quickly got AVB.

I can't think of any club that has actually come in for him.
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I reckon there have been plenty of offers that haven't made it to the press.
 
I think hes a great manager. Almost all of the criticisms levelled at him are related to the club he manages. They don't have good match winnings subs all over the place to change games.

Hes in that awkward position where he is on the edges of the top clubs in the country but its unlikely he will get to manage one of them. Big clubs go for big managers. Thats no reflection on his talents but chelsea have gone through a slew of big name managers, tottenham went for the potential of AVB and the rest are long term managers. City could get relegated and I doubt mancini would be sacked!
 
Youstolemyname said:
I reckon there have been plenty of offers that haven't made it to the press.
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Yeah fair enough but from who? Which clubs that would be a step up have been changing managers that might be of interest to him?

Spurs.

Moyes strikes me as someone who has a very tight relationship with Kenwright. I'm sure if Spurs had tried to tap him up we would have heard about it. Anyway I don't think they were interested, AVB seems to have already been a done deal when levy got rid of harry.

So other than that the only clubs consistently above us are

Man U
Chelsea
Arsenal
City recently
Liverpool

So which of these clubs do you think he's not had the guts to say yes to?

I don't think a club which is bigger or a better offer has come yet.
 
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