Associate
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I totally agree with you UK-AL05.
Uni can be worthwhile of course, depends really on the job market after you qualify.
Doesn't mean its the correct route for everyone or that you are stupid if you don't go.
The amount of times i have been having a debate with some friends and they come away with 'I go to university, so i think i know a little bit more than you' about a subject totally unrelated to their degree
Doesn't mean its the correct route for everyone or that you are stupid if you don't go.
The amount of times i have been having a debate with some friends and they come away with 'I go to university, so i think i know a little bit more than you' about a subject totally unrelated to their degree
Soldato
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Yes definitely. It comes down a lot to drive and personality IMO.
I went to Uni, but unless you need it for your chosen profession, then these days, given how much it costs, I would think carefully about it and wouldn't feel it's necessary.
In general, I'd say attempting to avoid major debt is a good strategy in life, so if you were to go to Uni, you need to be very dedicated towards your career and reasonably confident you could get a high paying job to pay off any Uni debt.
Rgds
I went to uni and studied Chemistry & Biochemistry. Ended up with a 2:1 and went on to a PhD, then a post-doc. I now work in the pharma industry and earn very good money. Was it the right choice? Yes and no. Yes, it was a great experience, I learnt something about which I always had a passion, I now work in a field where my endeavours help save lives every day, I met my wife, had a lot of fun, started karate and got my black belt, made some amazing friends but, above all I worked very hard. I wanted the degree (I needed to, it was 1 degree but actually involved 2 x 0.75 of each course - Chem & Biochem) and it opened up the doctorate for me. No, because I shouldn't have wasted my time on the post-doc. That took 3 years which would have been better spent in work.
Uni is a big commitment. As others have said, you are investing in yourself. When I went I got a full grant, my parents paid for my flat (which was really cheap) and I worked every holiday. I emerged with no debt but that's unlikely nowadays. You have to really want it. Even without the financial burden there is a hell of a lot of work involved. Think long and hard before you commit to it.
Uni is a big commitment. As others have said, you are investing in yourself. When I went I got a full grant, my parents paid for my flat (which was really cheap) and I worked every holiday. I emerged with no debt but that's unlikely nowadays. You have to really want it. Even without the financial burden there is a hell of a lot of work involved. Think long and hard before you commit to it.
Art is a skill. It's a skill you get better at the more you do (trying new styles and refining technique etc.). You don't need to get yourself in debt to do something that's basically a creative hobby. Artists succeed by having a great portfolio of there work, not from having a stupid BA written on their CV. Pretty sure most famous artists (Picasso, Monet etc.) didnt go to 'Uni.' Same principle goes to stupid degrees like 'photography' lol....
and what about the many MANY others that do art and end up in a crap job totally unrelated to art...
UK-AL05,
I understand if you have passion for the subject you do, but out of curiosity, how much money has it cost to put you through a degree, masters and now PhD??
and what about the many MANY others that do art and end up in a crap job totally unrelated to art...
UK-AL05,
I understand if you have passion for the subject you do, but out of curiosity, how much money has it cost to put you through a degree, masters and now PhD??
I'm paid to do the Ph.D.
But if you make career out of art, its going to be marketing and advertising which you do need a degree.
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Actually it wasnt an 'Art' degree she did, but this one here:
http://www.wimbledon.arts.ac.uk/cou...rses/bahonstheatresetdesignforstageandscreen/
She got a first and has worked as an Art director for all of the TV channels as well as working on a couple of low budget films. You do need a degree to get a Job like that, its something that you cant get onto without one.
The job is basically designing, setting up and ordering everything required to make the sets for what you see on your TV programs.
She has a website fully covering all the work she's done, but I wouldnt post that on forums as it has her contact info.
Also a student in my year / uni who did a combined media / music degree is a very popular and high earning DJ. He didnt actually need his degree to get that job as he was already working as a DJ and producing his own dance music within his teen years, but he simply wanted to do a music degree as well.
The main reason why a lot of people that do art based degrees dont get a job in their field is simply because they dont want to, or they arent good enough or motivated enough at their art to actually work in that field, but simply wanted to a degree in something they enjoyed and could do.
The main point of an Art based degree is to build up a portfolio of work that can help to get you a job if your work is good enough with access to industry standard hardware / software that most people wouldnt be able to afford themselves. Its not a surefire way of getting a job if you lack the ability or talent to succeed.
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Soldato
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Pick your job, then pick you degree. Only reason to do it the other way round is if you know you're doing a degree just because you can afford to. By that I mean my millionaire flat mate doing classics just because he wanted to knowing full well it won't get him a job at the end of it but it's ok because his debts are paid by his parents.
I really don't get how people say uni is so hard. It's really not. I am so lazy, I barely do any work for it and so far I'm doing alight going into my third year. Most people do degrees which weren't even as hard as a levels probably. At least not furthermaths and chemistry at a level. Now they were hard. I mean well, they wern't as hard compatibly to being 16/17 trying to do them and juggle another 2 ontop of that. I do a maths degree and I arguably found further maths harder. I mean obviously now I'd ace furthermaths but I certainly didn't at the time.
In my opinion uni seems to scale quite well and first year you literally don't have to pay any attention and still come out ok. Spend that time socialising getting drunk and the last 2/3 years just pay more attention.
Also, OMG COMPUTER SCIENCE? *yawn*.
I really don't get how people say uni is so hard. It's really not. I am so lazy, I barely do any work for it and so far I'm doing alight going into my third year. Most people do degrees which weren't even as hard as a levels probably. At least not furthermaths and chemistry at a level. Now they were hard. I mean well, they wern't as hard compatibly to being 16/17 trying to do them and juggle another 2 ontop of that. I do a maths degree and I arguably found further maths harder. I mean obviously now I'd ace furthermaths but I certainly didn't at the time.
In my opinion uni seems to scale quite well and first year you literally don't have to pay any attention and still come out ok. Spend that time socialising getting drunk and the last 2/3 years just pay more attention.
Anyone stating "top 10 uni" instead of stating the name of it is most likely lieing so I just stopped reading.
Also, OMG COMPUTER SCIENCE? *yawn*.
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I think the most ignored argument is the evolving job market. In ten or twenty years, these "pointless" degrees as some of you arrogant folks point out will be invaluable.
We are very early on in the rise of a "digital" age but you have to be dumb to ignore the fact that it will quickly lead to a demand in a new field of jobs relating to "digital media", computers etc blah blah.
We are very early on in the rise of a "digital" age but you have to be dumb to ignore the fact that it will quickly lead to a demand in a new field of jobs relating to "digital media", computers etc blah blah.
That's a bit sad tbh... part of the experience of going to uni is being away from home, doing what you like, getting trashed etc... 1st year doesn't count towards your final mark for good reason....
I don't care whatever some idealists might like to think, a big part of going to uni is that it is fun... when you're 18 years old and the other option would be to start in some office somewhere then its the obvious choice and as long as you're not a complete tard and can get into a decent place then you'll usually end up with a better job on average anyway...
Whats wrong with that tbh... that is what universities are there for, people who are actually interested in the subject and want to study it. Universities weren't created to be employment training facilities, despite more vocational courses being offered these days, they're academic institutions first and foremost. If anything your friend is the one who is there for the right reasons - studying something he wanted to not just something he thinks will get him a job at the end.
Incidentally this is the best option, you never know where you might end up and you'll tend to do better if you simply study something you enjoy.
Nail. Head.
If your career is vocational and requires a set qualification then go for it.
Otherwise there are a good part of uni students who do 3-4 years degreed run up 10-20k debt and then get a job paying 15-20k. I know one who is an assistant manager at my local bookies, the old assistant manager was some lovely old woman who had done nothing more education wise than her GCE's or whatever they were back in the day. Great way to use your degree.
Degrees are useful but so many people have them that they are not as of effective as they once were.
I take it nobody still bothers to actually work out what a normal average graduate earner will actually pay back after the fee increase...
Associate
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I have no time for elitist bigots.
You would have thought University would make people more mature, accepting of different ideas/logic and empathetic. Instead it appears from this thread that certain "soon to be/graduates" are "know it alls" , ignorant, pompous and have such a jaded view of reality its unbelievable!
In my opinion it all comes down to what you want to do and how good you are at it. If someone is good at art or humanities or whatever field is frowned upon... SO WHAT? If they enjoy it and are genuinely good at it then go for it. Where you go or what you do shouldn't matter as if you are good enough and work hard enough then you get what you deserve; it may require a bit of luck in being in the right place at the right time but in the end the majority get what they deserve!
You would have thought University would make people more mature, accepting of different ideas/logic and empathetic. Instead it appears from this thread that certain "soon to be/graduates" are "know it alls" , ignorant, pompous and have such a jaded view of reality its unbelievable!
In my opinion it all comes down to what you want to do and how good you are at it. If someone is good at art or humanities or whatever field is frowned upon... SO WHAT? If they enjoy it and are genuinely good at it then go for it. Where you go or what you do shouldn't matter as if you are good enough and work hard enough then you get what you deserve; it may require a bit of luck in being in the right place at the right time but in the end the majority get what they deserve!
Not really. There are opportunities even at crap universities. If you're good a good student and can find a decent course, then it's a lot easier to get to the top of the pack and be noticed. Obviously going to a crap uni isn't going to win a game of top trumps when comparing university rankings, but if getting a good job is the objective then I wouldn't discount it.
I should say that my opinion is based on fees at £1k/year when it was cheap enough to take a punt. Not sure I'd say the same thing having to pay maximum fees these days.
Also just to add, where I used to work (and same with my new job) absolutely everyone had an MSc or PhD in a STEM subject. If you have one, and show a reasonable amount of aptitude they would hire you tomorrow. So in the sense of going to uni to open doors for future career opportunities it's definitely a worthwhile thing to do.
Soldato
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how much?