Is it illegal NOT to save someone from dying?

[JBuk]

This is relevant...

Assume that everything you read is true and possible; there are no tricks or traps - then answer the following...

Q1 - A trolley is running out of control down a track. In its path are 5 people who have been tied to the track by a mad philosopher. Fortunately, you can flip a switch, which will lead the trolley down a different track to safety. Unfortunately, there is a single person tied to that track. Should you flip the switch?

Question 2 to follow

how can it be lead to safety if there's someone on that track?

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

how can it be lead to safety if there's someone on that track?

There is always one..... Its not a trick, you flick the switch, and 1 is killed, you leave it 5 are killed.

Edited for clarity.

 

[mmj_uk]

There was a story a while back about police who (for health and safety reasons) just stood and watched someone drowned, so I doubt it.

I couldn't live with the guilt of not even trying myself though.

 

[PikeyPriest]

There are 3 resons to stop CPR (From a first aid course)
Help Arrives
Casualty wakes up
The first aider is exausted

Not that simple. You can add-

-Major injuries that make survival impossible (Hemicorporectomy, decapitation..etc)
-If your skills are best used on saving others. No point doing CPR for 30 minutes while other people are at risk. The chances of perfusing someone sufficiently on your own, without high flow oxygen, bag mask, defib...etc is poor. Your much better doing simple things to maintain airways, reduce bleeding...etc for those that are actually alive.

 

[Xordium]

Well as someone who used to teach advanced life support I can hopefully clear this up. There is no "good Samaritan" law in this country. The only people whom are obliged to help in such situations are those who are held by a professional code of conduct (eg Nurses and Doctors etc). Even so those codes make it quite clear that they have to act in full knowledge of their limitations and experience. Therefore say a mental health practitioner who has little dealing with acute trauma etc could easily justify their response as only phoning 999. The general public are under no obligation. If however you chose to get involved unless it was shown you were willingly and consciously negligent would you ever have the possibility of legal action.

(Important bits highlighted)

 

[Xordium]

Not that simple. You can add-

-Major injuries that make survival impossible (Hemicorporectomy, decapitation..etc)
-If your skills are best used on saving others. No point doing CPR for 30 minutes while other people are at risk. The chances of perfusing someone sufficiently on your own, without high flow oxygen, bag mask, defib...etc is poor. Your much better doing simple things to maintain airways, reduce bleeding...etc for those that are actually alive.

Indeed reverse triage is something we often employed both in the field and also in this country in major incidents - good old Bolshevik strategy for getting the maximum number of people up and running!

 

[Castiel]

He wasn't even replying to you?

As I was the poster directly above and he did not quote another and his post was specific enough to mine, I beg to differ.

Who was he replying to? and what evidence do you have to suggest that?

 

[Von Smallhausen]

There was a story a while back about police who (for health and safety reasons) just stood and watched someone drowned, so I doubt it.

I couldn't live with the guilt of not even trying myself though.

They were PCSOs and IIRC the lad had gone under the water and was out of sight when they arrived on scene.

 

[Sp00n]

No, but its immoral, imo.

 

[TFleming]

None, the Laws in England and Wales does not make it illegal for an omission act. WITH EXCEPTIONS.

i.e.

If you are a Parent or Guardian of the person - hence you are legally required to care and feed your child. (from Children and Young Persons Act 1933)

Job/Duty - Police officer to help someone in a fight/prevent a crime (Crouther’s Case (1599), or if you are a Doctor, and someone is dying in front of you, you should at least try (without putting yourself in danger).

Duty arising from special relationships - R v Gibbins and Proctor (1918) CCA.

Assumption of care for another - R v Smith (1826). R v Shepard (1862)

Official, contractual or public duties - Railway keeper ( R v Pittwood (1902) close the gate, he didn't hence liable)

etc etc etc

There are a few more..

God that reminds me of my dreaded Law A Level times.

 

[Strife212]

As I was the poster directly above and he did not quote another and his post was specific enough to mine, I beg to differ.

Who was he replying to? and what evidence do you have to suggest that?

He's obviously refering to the tile of the thread...

Is it illegal NOT to save someone from dying?

I like how you put so much emphasis on the NOT, as if it's illegal to save someones life

I do see your point but his post makes little sense as a reply to yours.

 

[Castiel]

He's obviously refering to the tile of the thread...





I do see your point but his post makes little sense as a reply to yours.

I did think it was a little weird. I wish people would quote to avoid confusion in cases like this.

 

[Radiation]

So in what situations is inaction likely illegal apart from negligent ones?

 

[Castiel]

So in what situations is inaction likely illegal apart from negligent ones?

Not applying your brakes when someone is lying in the road in front of you...

 

[RDM]

Q1 - A trolley is running out of control down a track. In its path are 5 people who have been tied to the track by a mad philosopher. Fortunately, you can flip a switch, which will lead the trolley down a different track away from the 5 people. Unfortunately, there is a single person tied to that track. Should you flip the switch?

If I don't know any of the people then I would not flip the switch. My inaction is not causing anyone to die, that is the work of the philosopher. If I flipped the switch I would be directly reponsible for that person's death.

Question 2 to follow

No, I wouldn't push the fat guy over either...

 

[loltim]

He's obviously refering to the tile of the thread...

Indeed. Sorry for any confusion

 

[BennyC]

Don't stop CPR until the ambulance crew has arrived. Even if you can't get air into the lungs carry on compressions.

Even if they've been horrifically mangled from a fall straighten them out (going to die anyway if you don't), clear the airway and give them what for on the compression front. Remember to call the ambulance and tell them you've an unconscious non breather first

*thanks work for his recent first aid training *

 

[KNiVES]

My morality is far more important than the law, something I look upon with faint contempt.

If you let a person die who you could've easily saved, you have a bigger problem than what the law would try on you.

 

[DJMK4]

Not sure, but I did witness someone try and jump off a 3rd story apartment in Ibiza, we were coming in from Tiesto @ Privilidge at 6am, he had clearly split up with his gf.

We wasnt sure weather to shout and raise alert, as there was no one seeing him, but at the same time, we didnt want to shout with the worry that in the state he was in our shouting might have egged him off, we were over the opposite side of the street so had no quick access to the block he was in.

My mate shouted though, then everyone started looking out there windows and telling him to get down. the police also weirdly drove past and my mate run up to the side of the car, pointed upwards to this guy, and the police ignored it and drove off!!

Eventually someone broke in to his room and got him down after he was hanging off the ledge