Is it wrong for somebody to have the 'wrong' guitar?

I thought that when I was in year 8 when people started out at my school on martins and taylors.

Then I realised I don't care and can play the same stuff, and much better music, on my £150 fender acoustic, and still have it sound ok.

Seems pointless being jealous over something so trivial, which is all it is.

Talent doesn't "deserve" better gear.
 
I have a PRS SE Singlecut, if I had the cash I'd get a proper PRS in a flash despite not having the ability to justify it.

It's a natural reaction to feel that someone doesn't deserve whatever expensive thing they have but i'm sure they're all thinking, "Who cares what you think, I've got a PRS/Ferrari/expensive DSLR camera."

On a related note, kind of opposite situation to the OP, I saw a band called This City supporting Rival Schools a few months back on Portsmouth. One of the gutarists had a PRS SE Custom and it sounded fantastic.
 
uknowist said:
agreed, school boy error assuming that if he has an awesome guitar he will play awesomely;)
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After watching at least 2 bands a week for the last 32 years, I think I can make the 'school boy error' that good gear 99.99999% of the time = talent.
I've also engineered 1000s of bands between 1976 and the mid 80s and I still get to engineer the odd band now (thats besides all the other artists I've lined up with on stage over the last 38 years).
It is very very rare to see top gear in the hands of beginners and even rarer to see beginners being paid.
I can 99.99999% guarantee that I can go out tonight, fri & sat to watch bands and all members will be above average but whether they get it together as a band is another thing.
The guitarist & drummer I posted about were exceptionally bad and to see their equipment first threw me a curveball.
You can also add to that a bassist with a Wal bass and Trace Elliot stack who I don't think played one note right all night.

saint_jw said:
I have a PRS SE Singlecut, if I had the cash I'd get a proper PRS in a flash despite not having the ability to justify it.
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But can you string chords together in time and in tune?
The guitarist in the OP couldn't.
 
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I agree with Dave.

Most instruments have a "skill level" - Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced/Expert. I'd agree that people are welcome to buy what they want, but if they want to improve they should go for an instrument that is at their level and if you're being educated properly on playing, grade.

Instruments in apperance are going to basically be all the same, but the small differences between make a massive difference.
 
Totally agree with dmpoole, the phrase "all the gear, no idea" springs to mind.

I'm another sax player to the thread, and the same applies... I play a cheapish, middle of the road tenor sax, the make and model of sax that well informed beginners with a semi-reasonable budget buy. On a gig with it, all is fine, no worries.

I upgraded my alto sax about 18 months ago, spent £2500 on a posh, handmade German sax, with a dark brass colour scheme that looks great, but, sticks out like a sore thumb - especially to those in the know. If I'm on a gig in company with other saxophone players, I'm always extremely conscious of being able to live up to the saxophone.

No matter what anyone thinks should happen, or whether it's right or polite, if you're in the company of gigging musicians, and someone cracks open a case and sets up a top of the range, custom, fancy colour scheme, uber posh instrument - whether sax, trumpet, guitar, drum kit etc - all the musos in the room will think "oh yeah? Go on then!"
 
So should people have to pass a mini music exam when wishing to purchase an instrument? "Hi, i'd like to buy a Fender xxxx", "Ok, first prove to me that you can say, do the guitar solo from Another Brick in the Wall Part 2. If it's good enough (by my standards) I will grant you the ability to purchase this guitar"....
 
oldbag said:
So should people have to pass a mini music exam when wishing to purchase an instrument? "Hi, i'd like to buy a Fender xxxx", "Ok, first prove to me that you can say, do the guitar solo from Another Brick in the Wall Part 2. If it's good enough (by my standards) I will grant you the ability to purchase this guitar"....
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No but I would expect if they are actually playing live in a band where I have turned up that they can string 3 chords together in time and not out of tune.

the opposite is also true.
I would have loved to have seen the band I saw saturday night to play with our gear.
They were awesome but their gear let them down.
 
Yeah, but being able to play is down to the person learning and practicing. How much they wish to spend and the quality of equipment they purchase is personal choice. If they can afford it, why not? It saves them money in the long run if they are interested, since they don't have to go through lots of lesser equipment to get to what they eventually want.
 
I suppose there's two types of "posh instrument player"

Type one would be a solid player, fitting in with the band, trying your best, practicing and improving all the time, being as tight as you can, and playing the songs nice and simply - because your ability isn't up to being flashy and complicated. This is fine, everyone starts somewhere, regardless of instrument.

The second type is the actual bad player dmpoole noticed in the OP. Out of time, out of tune, playing wrong chords literally every minute. To my mind - if you're gonna buy a pretentious guitar and play it on a gig in front of people who like your music enough to see you, the least you can do is do enough practice so you can play the songs without messing up. This would annoy me regardless of whether the guitarist had a crap guitar, or an amazing one, but if he's playing a fantastic instrument, the feelings of hate are amplified somewhat!
 
oldbag said:
Yeah, but being able to play is down to the person learning and practicing. How much they wish to spend and the quality of equipment they purchase is personal choice. If they can afford it, why not? It saves them money in the long run if they are interested, since they don't have to go through lots of lesser equipment to get to what they eventually want.
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I don't think you've read the thread.

This is about going out to watch a band, you look at the gear on the stage, you immediately get a vibe because of the gear on the stage and experience has proved this over and over, the band come on and do not live up to the gear.

It also happens the opposite way, you go out to watch a band, you look at the gear, its all crap so you get an instant vibe that the band won't be up to much because experience has proved this over and over, they come on and completely blow you out of the water.
It doesn't happen often.
 
But who cares? So, the band were rubbish.... What right do we have to decide whether said person deserves a certain instrument or not?
 
oldbag said:
But who cares? So, the band were rubbish.... What right do we have to decide whether said person deserves a certain instrument or not?
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You're still not getting it are you?
It isn't about deciding who deserves what.
Its about your immediate response when seeing a live artist with a great instrument or a crap instrument and they are completely the opposite.
Like I said earlier, after going to watch bands every week for over 30 years you immediately get an idea what a bands capabilities are going to be before they go on by just looking at gear.
You might not like their music but they normally live up to what they are playing.
It is very rare that crap live musicians have great gear.

We are in a similar position with our lead guitarist.
You can bet that at every gig there will be punters looking at his JEM guitars and they will immediately get the impression that he will be playing like Steve Vai because the guitar demands that you do - simple.
He comes on and you can see punters disappointed, however he plays in tune, plays in time does his job and we always get rebooked.
Most punters know who we are but when we play a new place I usually shout out they won't be getting any Steve Vai.
 
Hang on, didn't you say in your opening post, "Sometimes people don't deserve certain things." - or did i read that incorrectly?

Agreed, if you see a band with amazing kit and they are rubbish it's clearly a let down since they aren't using the kit to any of it's potential, but if they want to spend an amount of money on certain kit, but choose not to practice or learn, that is their lookout, surely?
 
dmpoole said:
This is about going out to watch a band, you look at the gear on the stage, you immediately get a vibe because of the gear on the stage and experience has proved this over and over, the band come on and do not live up to the gear.
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I'd say the problem moreso lies with your continuing misconception regarding the relationship between quality of equipment, to band talent.

You've demonstrated that there isn't really any relationship, but you believe there should be.

To start making assumptions on a bands quality before they've even picked up the aforementioned instruments, seems very narrow minded to me.

oldbag said:
But who cares? So, the band were rubbish.... What right do we have to decide whether said person deserves a certain instrument or not?
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Indeed. The only relationship I can ascertain between musician and equipment, is whether they have the money to buy decent equipment, and whether they choose to.

If I turn up to a gig and the guitarist has a nice guitar, I would think "The guitarist has a nice guitar" and nothing more. And I haven't been going to 2 gigs a week for 32 years.
 
That's the price you pay for being an elitist!!! Maybe the guitarist in the OP was extremely talented. Maybe you couldn't spot that talent due to your narrow perceptions of what you consider 'good'. Nah.

Had a similar experience watching a support act for Napalm Death, quality guitar, average playing. Know what you mean.

Similar sort of thing with comparing technical ability with success, no?
 
Gaijin said:
If I turn up to a gig and the guitarist has a nice guitar, I would think "The guitarist has a nice guitar" and nothing more. And I haven't been going to 2 gigs a week for 32 years.
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I say rubbish.
If you see a guitarist with a JEM Bad Horsie you would expect something special out of him.
If you see a drummer with a DW kit and as many pieces as Neil Peart you will expect something special.
If you see a bass player with a WAL bass and Trace Elliot stack you will expect something special.
To say different is BS or you don't know what gear is.
There is no way on this planet would you just say "Oooh, he's got nice gear" without thinking something good is coming out of it.

Robosapien said:
Maybe you couldn't spot that talent due to your narrow perceptions of what you consider 'good'. Nah.
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Thats a good one - 38 years playing in bands and I can't spot if anybody is good or not.
If the guitarist in the OP could have at least played 3 chords in time and in tune and in the correct order I would have gone away happy.
He couldn't - he stood there all evening and completely played wrong.
He doesn't play anymore so that says a lot.

I have no problems with somebody buying nice gear.
I have taught so many people over the last 38 years and some have come in my house with fantastic gear but none have walked on a stage in front of a paying audience and proved they didn't know 3 chords.

I AM NOT SAYING THESE MUSICIANS SHOULDN'T HAVE GOOD GEAR, I'M SAYING THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON A STAGE WITH IT IF THEY CAN'T PLAY IT.
IN FACT THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON THE STAGE WASTING MY TIME.
 
dmpoole said:
I AM NOT SAYING THESE MUSICIANS SHOULDN'T HAVE GOOD GEAR, I'M SAYING THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON A STAGE WITH IT IF THEY CAN'T PLAY IT.
IN FACT THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON THE STAGE WASTING MY TIME.
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Get over your ****ing self :rolleyes:

Everyone starts somewhere, if these dudes are rich enough to buy thmeselves nice gear then that's up to them

I'll use one of your favourite quotes here, if you don't like it leave, no-one forces you to stand there watching crap bands

Sheeeeeesh you're so far up your own arse its unbelievable
 
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