Is the console going to become extinct or evolve?

[Timber]

TLDR; With walled gardens being everywhere I don't think they are going anywhere just yet. Growth did go over to mobile (as predicted) and PC. But the '30%' is too valuable and that isn't being given-up anytime soon.

Right now there is a perfect storm of consolidation, post-pandemic slow down, an economic downturn and an end to cheap borrowing - all of which have hit largely at once. And hence the drying up of funding, job layoffs and slow-down across everything. Not just consoles, but PC too. And more importantly the move towards services. On everything.

In terms of the current console manufacturers I don't think they are apples-to-apples comparisons. Microsoft are at (or have been for a while) a tipping point where they need to choose whether they are a multi-platform publisher or platform holder. It's not sustainable for them to be both and it's clear there has been a change in strategy recently but I don't think they are at a point where they are ready to give up on that walled garden even if they go handheld. Which would still be a console btw. Again that may just be another wrong turn. Their issues are mostly failures of management for the past decade plus.

Sony's lack of growth and tight 5/6% profit is seeing them transition towards live-services. I think they risk making the similar mistakes as Microsoft, where decisions risk sales of their own hardware in the long-term. If they transition too far towards live-services and it negatively impacts their other output then I personally won't be buying more PlayStation hardware. However it should be noted for a long-time now have reversed the up/down roller-coaster ride of debt years to finance new hardware. Their growth is consistent. Something that '30%' allows them to achieve.

Nintendo don't seem to be doing badly or changing strategy. More visual success in licensing and selling of their IP rights (theme parks, movies etc) which some people are trying to spin as a 'new narrative' but I think that's just the results of their IPs being so strong and people growing-up with them. Switch might even become the highest selling console of all-time. They are doing well.

I think like the OP, PS5 and Series X|S have not been as strong as previous generations although Steam Deck & Switch (previous gen I know) have been killing it. I've been very happy gaming on all platforms catching up with my backlog and playing more indies games than ever. And this gen for the first time being able to maintain a Linux PC as a daily driver which is sometimes used for gaming - is brilliant. And points positively towards being able to ditch Windows in the future. Steam Deck and the availability of GPUs at (somewhat) lower prices again has brought me back to more PC gaming (Steam if I'm being honest). However I would be happy to commit a future purchasing of Steam Deck 2, more PC games, Switch 2 and maybe PlayStation 6. It's just Xbox I've lost all faith in and see as a legacy box moving forward. It will be interesting to see if and how that viewpoint changes over the next few years.

 

[Claidheamh_Mor]

Consoles have reached stagnation. The market hasn't grown with these devices.

The younger generation are mostly playing Mobile/Tablets and PC. By contrast, consoles are seen as an old man platform.

You don't save money either with consoles. 70 quid a pop for games, pay to play online, only one available store (digitally) to buy your games, game preservation is almost non-existent, limited accessory usage, spoon fed what console manufactures think you want and when licenced games get pulled from PSN/Microsoft Store/eShop they also get pulled from your library, even though you bought them.

Console gamers always get screwed over. I remember buying Outrun Online for the Xbox 360 years ago, due to licencing that game got pulled from the platform, i couldn't even download it anymore.

I bought Outrun: Coast 2 Coast on Steam, roughly about the same time i purchased Outrun Online on the Xbox 360, difference is, i can still play Outrun: Coast 2 Coast on Steam (at glorious 4K/60 too), it wasn't pulled from my library.

Consoles always were and always will be a bad investment in the long term.

Also, if I wanted to play Xbox Series X, PlayStation 5 and Nintendo Switch games, it would cost more than £1000+ in hardware alone, and that's without even buying a game, accessories or adding in subscriptions.

Therefore, i'd rather invest this money in building a gaming PC, have all the benefits that go with that platform and carry all my games/accessories over with no worries whatsoever. Plus it's the only platform you can play Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo (emulated) games on one device.

Long term it's not looking good for consoles. Streaming will even eventually replace those devices. Casuals drive the console market, once they can get a good enough experience, there is no need for them to spend £500/$500 on hardware (Microsoft know this, as do Sony). Just look at GeForce Now, it's great, those types of services will only get better and it'll be enough for most gamers.

Everything about consoles is just a red flag. I haven't bought one in almost 16 years.

Time to give console manufactures the middle finger and jump ship. Console owners are being played like a fiddle.

Personally, i'm glad i haven't invested in any console ecosystems.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Hardware prices have forced me out of PC gaming but I don't blame the manufacturers, they're only giving an horrifically dumb generation of PC gamers what they want which is style over substance, fancy graphics over gameplay. You only need to look at the PC section of this forum, it's benchmarks and screenshots, barely a single mention of gameplay any more.

I've got an i9-9900k and a GTX 2080 but I haven't played anything since Cyberpunk was released so I'll probably sell my components this year, invest in a Mini PC, continue using my PS5 for gaming then buy whatever MS or Sony release next.

 

[Timber]

when licenced games get pulled from PSN/Microsoft Store/eShop they also get pulled from your library, even though you bought them.

Although I agree PC and its library working is a plus, I can't think of any delisted game on any platform; Steam, XBLA, PSN that doesn't remain in my library. Although I'm sure there are some anomalies.

Generally when a game is removed from sale it remains available for re-download. For example, I remember buying Avengers (don't hate me) for £3 on PSN and Steam and it's available for playing any time I want irrespective of platform. I think the bigger issue is servers being taken offline (i.e. The Crew) with developers not making sure the game can be played offline. For example, Polyphony Digital deserve some credit for making sure Gran Turismo Sport was playable offline before servers were taken down. Crystal Dynamics did something similar with the aforementioned Avengers.

I do think Console manufacturers have been too lazy when an entire Storefront for a platform is shut down; i.e. 3DS or Wii U eShops. However all 3 current manufacturers do seem to recognise the importance of people taking their library with them now, i.e PS4 purchases on PS5. But generally the industry as a whole doesn't do anywhere near enough on preservation and the community often remains the best way to access old libraries (i.e. MiSTer). And in that sense PC does have an advantage, but I'm not sure how much Valve is to be credited with that.

 

[robj20]

Consoles have reached stagnation. The market hasn't grown with these devices.

The younger generation are mostly playing Mobile/Tablets and PC. By contrast, consoles are seen as an old man platform.

You don't save money either with consoles. 70 quid a pop for games, pay to play online, only one available store (digitally) to buy your games, game preservation is almost non-existent, limited accessory usage, spoon fed what console manufactures think you want and when licenced games get pulled from PSN/Microsoft Store/eShop they also get pulled from your library, even though you bought them.

Console gamers always get screwed over. I remember buying Outrun Online for the Xbox 360 years ago, due to licencing that game got pulled from the platform, i couldn't even download it anymore.

I bought Outrun: Coast 2 Coast on Steam, roughly about the same time i purchased Outrun Online on the Xbox 360, difference is, i can still play Outrun: Coast 2 Coast on Steam (at glorious 4K/60 too), it wasn't pulled from my library.

Consoles always were and always will be a bad investment in the long term.

Also, if I wanted to play Xbox Series X, PlayStation 5 and Nintendo Switch games, it would cost more than £1000+ in hardware alone, and that's without even buying a game, accessories or adding in subscriptions.

Therefore, i'd rather invest this money in building a gaming PC, have all the benefits that go with that platform and carry all my games/accessories over with no worries whatsoever. Plus it's the only platform you can play Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo (emulated) games on one device.

Long term it's not looking good for consoles. Streaming will even eventually replace those devices. Casuals drive the console market, once they can get a good enough experience, there is no need for them to spend £500/$500 on hardware (Microsoft know this, as do Sony). Just look at GeForce Now, it's great, those types of services will only get better and it'll be enough for most gamers.

Everything about consoles is just a red flag. I haven't bought one in almost 16 years.

Time to give console manufactures the middle finger and jump ship. Console owners are being played like a fiddle.

Personally, i'm glad i haven't invested in any console ecosystems.

Games being £70 is 100% on the buyer though. I haven't spent more than £40 on any PS5 game so far, just have to wait, if everyone did the same, there wouldn't be any more £70 games.

 

[TheVoice]

Consoles have reached stagnation. The market hasn't grown with these devices.

The younger generation are mostly playing Mobile/Tablets and PC. By contrast, consoles are seen as an old man platform.

That's simply not true, the console market has been growing year on year and is projected to continue growing.

You don't save money either with consoles. 70 quid a pop for games, pay to play online, only one available store (digitally) to buy your games, game preservation is almost non-existent, limited accessory usage, spoon fed what console manufactures think you want and when licenced games get pulled from PSN/Microsoft Store/eShop they also get pulled from your library, even though you bought them.

Some entirely fair points there around ongoing costs, but the cost of entry to console gaming is far less than PC gaming, especially at the start of a console generation where the equivalent hardware would be vastly more expensive. The PC hardware market is also incredibly turbulent these days, we saw that a couple of years ago with GPU prices and similar things happen from time to time with RAM and SSD prices.

Consoles always were and always will be a bad investment in the long term.

In what way? I still have and can use my old PS2 and PS3 and can play all my games on them, both on disc and digitally. I can also play my old PS1 games on the PS3, and I've got digital PS1 games I bought on the PS3 which I can now play on the PS5. I think it's pretty safe to say at this stage that PS4 and PS5 games will be playable on the PS6, especially if you own them digitally.

Long term it's not looking good for consoles.

People have been saying the same thing about PC gaming for as long as I've been a PC gamer.

Personally, i'm glad i haven't invested in any console ecosystems.

I'm glad I have, because it's meant I've played absolutely loads of games that never made it to the PC, I've played games years ago that are only now arriving on PC, and I've played games in a better-performing state than they were when they arrived on PC. It also allows me to have a more informed and balanced view on both console and PC gaming. I enjoy having a gaming-capable PC and there are loads of games that are better suited to the platform, but it's also a massive hassle at times and there isn't a PC gamer on the planet who hasn't run into technical issues at some point. They're a mainstay of PC gaming and something we tend to accept but for newbies it's daunting and often off-putting.

Streaming is definitely going to be disruptive once it eventually picks up some momentum, but it will just as easily damage the casual/midrange PC gaming market too; people will think twice about spending £1k+ on a PC when they can get an equivalent or better result on a streaming subscription. The PC hardware market is already chasing the high-budget enthusiast with increasingly expensive hardware, the affordable options will become even more limited if the casual market dries up.

 

[dave28]

Well over 50 million PS5`s sold and counting even though they put the price UP and are getting near £500 a piece for them still after several years.

I would take a guess and say they are not going extinct for a long time, especially if gaming PC`s continue to rise and rise in price.

 

[silvagti]

Streaming is definitely going to be disruptive once it eventually picks up some momentum, but it will just as easily damage the casual/midrange PC gaming market too; people will think twice about spending £1k+ on a PC when they can get an equivalent or better result on a streaming subscription. The PC hardware market is already chasing the high-budget enthusiast with increasingly expensive hardware, the affordable options will become even more limited if the casual market dries up.

That's the million dollar question we should be pondering IMO.

What happens to the high-end PC and Console market when game streaming starts to dominate the sector (as it inevitably will at some point IMO)?

 

[Plainsong]

It’ll make almost everything else obsolete. We just can’t see it yet. It’s coming though for sure.

 

[Timber]

That's simply not true, the console market has been growing year on year and is projected to continue growing.

Good point, I did a quick search on this and the report that tends to get re-reported often is NewZoo's yearly reports. At least without paying money for another service to produce their estimates. This has the console market growing faster than PC in 2023 (and 2022).

That said if you look at other metrics such as units shifted (which is clearly what Sony were doing in their financials) in general actual consoles being sold isn't growing. Perhaps some growth in the number of games, but it's the shift to digital and live services, where there has been huge growth in revenue. Again that '30%' that is so valuable.

 

[Claidheamh_Mor]

That's simply not true, the console market has been growing year on year and is projected to continue growing.

No, it hasn't. Where are your sources to denote your claim??

There is an interesting topic over on Games Industry.biz regarding the lack of growth within the console market.

Video game consoles are doomed… right? | Opinion

Console gaming is dying.

www.gamesindustry.biz

Some quotes from the article:

• Sony revealed that it will miss its target of shipping 25 million PS5 consoles in the financial year by four million (at least). The PS5, which is now in full supply, is trending behind the PS4.
• COO and CFO Hiroki Totoki talked about how releasing more PS5 games on PC was part of an 'aggressive' plan to grow margins.
• The console business hasn't really grown in 20 years. Just under 180 million PS2 and Xbox consoles were sold during that generation. That dropped slightly to just over 170 million during the PS3 and 360 era, and then we're back up to around 180 million for PS4.
• One of the reasons the Xbox/PlayStation market hasn't grown is that there are too many gamers 'ageing out' of consoles, and there's not enough young people coming in at the other end of the funnel.

The last point above perfectly illustrates what i said i.e the younger generation are mostly playing Mobile/Tablets and PC. By contrast, consoles are seen as an old man platform.

Richard Leadbetter from DF also points out the console market isn't growing in a recent DF Direct (@1:58:02)

Some entirely fair points there around ongoing costs, but the cost of entry to console gaming is far less than PC gaming, especially at the start of a console generation where the equivalent hardware would be vastly more expensive. The PC hardware market is also incredibly turbulent these days, we saw that a couple of years ago with GPU prices and similar things happen from time to time with RAM and SSD prices.

PC gaming is as expensive as you want it to be. And you don't need to be on the bleeding edge to enjoy either.

You could buy a Steam Deck (or build/buy a gaming PC new or 2nd hand) and still have access to a lots of PlayStation/Xbox/Nintendo (emulated) content. As i stated above, buying all 3 consoles would cost over a £1000+ alone, and that's without even buying a game, accessories or adding in subscriptions. Buying all 3 consoles is out of reach and unrealistic for many.

Point is, the console ecosystem isn't cheap and can cost way more long term than PC gaming. i.e games are more expensive, online subscriptions, extra accessories, etc.

Oh and physical won't be forever on consoles. So you'll inevitably be forced to buy digital.

In what way? I still have and can use my old PS2 and PS3 and can play all my games on them, both on disc and digitally. I can also play my old PS1 games on the PS3, and I've got digital PS1 games I bought on the PS3 which I can now play on the PS5. I think it's pretty safe to say at this stage that PS4 and PS5 games will be playable on the PS6, especially if you own them digitally.

Consoles always were and always will be a bad investment in the long term due to the fact the consumer has very little control of what is basically a closed platform. Game preservation is almost non-existent and very limited.

Also, how many digital stores on consoles have closed due to the hardware being obsolete. Loads!!. You can't buy games digitally for the Wii, DS, 3DS. The Xbox 360 store closes on July 2024. And Sony only kept the PS3 store open due to pressure from the media, though that store will close at some point too and future console stores will inevitably follow their predecessors.

You can't be that naïve to expect PS4/PS5 games to run on PS6. All it takes is for Sony to go with a different CPU/GPU from another vendor. You're basically hoping/praying at this point PS4/PS5 games run on PS6. Nothing is guaranteed.

Does all your PS1, PS2, PS3 accessories work on your PS5 out of the box? Aye, of course they don't! And your old PS/Xbox/Nintendo games have limited, to no compatibility, in future hardware iterations.

Therefore, taking all of the points mentioned above, consoles always were and always will be a bad investment in the long term as the PC platform is in a much better place to deal with all of the above.

People have been saying the same thing about PC gaming for as long as I've been a PC gamer.

Yes they have, but the realities of this are amplified and are more a threat to consoles. In the future, the only platform you'll be playing with dedicated hardware is possibly on the PC (also due to the fact the PC is needed for productivity, content creation, etc, so hardware will still be manufactured).

Do you really think console manufactures are still going to make hardware once most of their customer base are playing their content either on Streaming services, PC or Mobile/Tablets.

Of course they won't as it doesn't make business or financial sense to do so!

 

[Timber]

No, it hasn't. Where are your sources to denote your claim??

Although not part of your conversation I did; post #30 above. The latest data shows 5x growth in 2023 for consoles vs PC. Or a third bigger by revenue. Source included.

There is an interesting topic over on Games Industry.biz regarding the lack of growth within the console market.

I like GI.biz but why is Nintendo ignored? The reasons given in that article don't make sense. Nintendo have been the number one console for the previous three generations, or 20 years. A handheld IS a console and I find it strange the Steam Deck is seen as a PC, but the Switch not a console? I do think there's an element of 'manipulation of data to illustrate a point'. If you add up console sales (Wikipedia) removing handhelds every single generation of consoles sold has increased. With over 300m sold in gen 8 with Switch on track to become the most successful selling console of all-time.

I think it's clear handheld games consoles sales collapsed when smartphones came along and hence Nintendo's well documented move to a hybrid console.

When listening to Richard Leadbetter he is very evidently talking about Microsoft, but also touching on the wider trends for both Microsoft and Sony leaning into Live Services heavily. This is no different from what any other platform maker is doing; Valve, Epic, Apple etc. Nintendo are the outlier and if/when they move to Live Services we may see them put more emphasis on PC too. Although this would be a fundamental shift of strategy.

The last point above perfectly illustrates what i said i.e the younger generation are mostly playing Mobile/Tablets and PC. By contrast, consoles are seen as an old man platform.

That's true. The kids went to Mobile & Tablets. 2 to 3 times the size of PC gaming.

PC gaming is as expensive as you want it to be. And you don't need to be on the bleeding edge to enjoy either.

You could buy a Steam Deck (or build/buy a gaming PC new or 2nd hand) and still have access to a lots of PlayStation/Xbox/Nintendo (emulated) content. As i stated above, buying all 3 consoles would cost over a £1000+ alone, and that's without even buying a game, accessories or adding in subscriptions. Buying all 3 consoles is out of reach and unrealistic for many.

Point is, the console ecosystem isn't cheap and can cost way more long term than PC gaming. i.e games are more expensive, online subscriptions, extra accessories, etc.

I think most would accept there is a much higher upfront cost with PC. Particularly with monitors, mice, keyboards, OS, sound cards/DACs etc. I know I've spent way more on PC vs console over the years. That said I love the Steam Deck and there are some wonderful options for getting into PC gaming again. Particularly after the last few years of component shortages. I have had subscriptions on PC too. Humble Choice subscriber atm.

Oh and physical won't be forever on consoles. So you'll inevitably be forced to buy digital.

I feel like this is a loss irrespective of platform. Stares at Warcraft:WotLK CE box.

Consoles always were and always will be a bad investment in the long term due to the fact the consumer has very little control of what is basically a closed platform. Game preservation is almost non-existent and very limited.

Also, how many digital stores on consoles have closed due to the hardware being obsolete. Loads!!. You can't buy games digitally for the Wii, DS, 3DS. The Xbox 360 store closes on July 2024. And Sony only kept the PS3 store open due to pressure from the media, though that store will close at some point too and future console stores will inevitably follow their predecessors.

You can't be that naïve to expect PS4/PS5 games to run on PS6. All it takes is for Sony to go with a different CPU/GPU from another vendor. You're basically hoping/praying at this point PS4/PS5 games run on PS6. Nothing is guaranteed.

Does all your PS1, PS2, PS3 accessories work on your PS5 out of the box? Aye, of course they don't! And your old PS/Xbox/Nintendo games have limited, to no compatibility, in future hardware iterations.

Therefore, taking all of the points mentioned above, consoles always were and always will be a bad investment in the long term as the PC platform is in a much better place to deal with all of the above.

I feel like this is moot. Preservation across the industry is very bad. Period. Whether it's PC or consoles generally it's always the community that steps in to plug the holes. What happens when the founders of Valve retire? Or when Epic stop being able to sell Fortnite bux and close EGS. Are those Storefronts not at risk? Ultimately the same reasons that result in the closure of console storefront (3DS, Wii etc.) are also the same reasons Microsoft harvest all your data about you on Windows or why game servers shut down all the time. I have old games on Steam that are plain broken when compared to their working console counterparts. There are pros and cons to any platform. Prevalence of cheaters, kernel-level DRM etc.

Do you really think console manufactures are still going to make hardware once most of their customer base are playing their content either on Streaming services, PC or Mobile/Tablets.

Yes, but all of these companies are trying to run a. platforms and b. live services. Microsoft clearly is having difficulties with that. But Microsoft and Sony show no signs of giving up on the walled gardens. Same as Valve, Epic etc. There's too much money to be made.

-----

I feel like there are challenges for Sony and Microsoft, but part of me wonders whether this narrative is a slight red herring and actually this is more about the problems at Microsoft (this is not in response to the above but my general musing) and the transitioning of everything to services (i.e. Steam, PSN, XBL etc. are all services).

 

[jaybee]

Consoles will be around as long as there is a market for them. I don't see that changing for a long, long time because the alternative is a PC setup which is:

- multiple times the price of any console for the same smooth experience and future proofing being able to play the latest games which would span the generation of a console
- Complex and harder to maintain
- Bigger and often deemed to be ugly in a room and therefore harder to integrate into any said gaming location

 

[TheVoice]

No, it hasn't. Where are your sources to denote your claim??

Where are yours? A GI opinion piece and a DF video are not factual sources. Timber has already kindly covered this anyway. And frankly, even if it does eventually decline a bit, so what? It might matter to CEOs and investors but the games aren't going anywhere and that's all that really matters to me. Infinite growth isn't sustainable nor realistic, but that drive for it is driven by greed and means that any sign that growth is slowing is viewed as a failure, as you've demonstrated.

PC gaming is as expensive as you want it to be. And you don't need to be on the bleeding edge to enjoy either.

Indeed, and the same applies to consoles unsurprisingly. There are people on this very forum who have only just picked up a cheap PS4 to catch up on a generation's worth of titles they've missed. Due to the extended cross-generation period with the current gen, that means they're able to play quite recent games too.

You could buy a Steam Deck (or build/buy a gaming PC new or 2nd hand) and still have access to a lots of PlayStation/Xbox/Nintendo (emulated) content. As i stated above, buying all 3 consoles would cost over a £1000+ alone, and that's without even buying a game, accessories or adding in subscriptions. Buying all 3 consoles is out of reach and unrealistic for many.

I'm not sure why you're repeating it because it's not really relevant; you don't need all three consoles to have a console gaming experience (nor an experience equivalent to owning a PC) and if you can't afford all three, simply don't buy all three. Your argument seems to essentially boil down to: You could buy an old PC from a charity shop and play emulators on it, or you have to buy three brand new consoles with all the subscriptions and accessories; with no in-between.

Point is, the console ecosystem isn't cheap and can cost way more long term than PC gaming. i.e games are more expensive, online subscriptions, extra accessories, etc.

It can, it doesn't have to though. There are optional subs for PC, the PC gaming peripherals market is massive, and that's before you've spent a sizeable amount on the machine itself. The current console gen is something of an outlier given the RRPs have held (if not increased) since launch but in the past they've seen sizeable price cuts over their lifespan. Buying anything at launch is generally going to be the most expensive way to do it.

Oh and physical won't be forever on consoles. So you'll inevitably be forced to buy digital.

I already do of my own volition due to convenience, but at least I still have the option to buy a disc if I fancy it. When was the last time you bought a new boxed PC game?

Consoles always were and always will be a bad investment in the long term due to the fact the consumer has very little control of what is basically a closed platform. Game preservation is almost non-existent and very limited.

Also, how many digital stores on consoles have closed due to the hardware being obsolete. Loads!!. You can't buy games digitally for the Wii, DS, 3DS. The Xbox 360 store closes on July 2024. And Sony only kept the PS3 store open due to pressure from the media, though that store will close at some point too and future console stores will inevitably follow their predecessors.

I don't really see my consoles as an "investment" and I certainly don't see my PC as one either, but nonetheless even with those online stores closing the physical games still exist. Obviously I'd rather they didn't close or see that the platforms came up with a more consumer-friendly solution but I don't realistically expect them to maintain those online stores forever either. The only reason we haven't yet seen similar on PC is because Steam has become the de facto standard and competitors largely end up selling games that install and run on Steam anyway. Let's hope it's too big to fall at this point. EGS may not be so lucky.

You can't be that naïve to expect PS4/PS5 games to run on PS6. All it takes is for Sony to go with a different CPU/GPU from another vendor. You're basically hoping/praying at this point PS4/PS5 games run on PS6. Nothing is guaranteed.

I didn't say it was guaranteed, but it is safe to say because it's abundantly clear the days of consoles using weird and wonderful architecture and hardware designs ala the Cell CPU are behind us. And if not on the hardware, there'll likely be some sort of streaming solution available by then anyway (not that I'm a fan of streaming). As Timber says, game preservation and accessing you're existing libraries of games is a broad issue not limited solely to one platform.

Does all your PS1, PS2, PS3 accessories work on your PS5 out of the box? Aye, of course they don't!

Why would they? Does an old PS/2 keyboard or SideWinder Force Feedback joystick work on your modern PC with current games? How about that PhysX card? Let's not pretend that PC hardware manufacturers don't have a history of dropping driver/software support whenever their next new thing comes along; Creative attempting to abandon owners of their Audigy soundcards back in the day when Vista launched springs to mind, but there are numerous other instances over the years. Getting old hardware or software to work on modern machines tends to rely more on the goodwill of volunteers than it does the people who made it in the first place.

And your old PS/Xbox/Nintendo games have limited, to no compatibility, in future hardware iterations.

I did just give some examples where that isn't the case, though. It's definitely something the console manufacturers could and should do better, but it's also something you tend to have to accept on a closed platform with fixed hardware. Firing up the PS1 version of Syphon Filter 3 on my PS5 is a lot easier than getting some PC games from the same era running on my machine.

Therefore, taking all of the points mentioned above, consoles always were and always will be a bad investment in the long term as the PC platform is in a much better place to deal with all of the above.

"In conclusion, I'm right and you're wrong."

Yes they have, but the realities of this are amplified and are more a threat to consoles. In the future, the only platform you'll be playing with dedicated hardware is possibly on the PC (also due to the fact the PC is needed for productivity, content creation, etc, so hardware will still be manufactured).

Possibly yes, but at what cost? Regular people don't buy desktop PCs anymore, anyone who does buys an all-in-one, everyone else either buys a laptop or just uses their phone/tablet. Employers are increasingly giving their employees laptops rather than enterprise-orientated PCs on desks; PC gaming is keeping the desktop PC market alive and when the biggest section of those gamers realises they get an equivalent experience on a streaming service, the hardware market for them will dry up too. Product ranges and pricing will become driven by the high-end enthusiasts with budgets to match.

That's before you even get to the question of whether developers will go to the substantial extra effort of supporting whatever PC hardware is left, when they could just ignore it entirely.

Do you really think console manufactures are still going to make hardware once most of their customer base are playing their content either on Streaming services, PC or Mobile/Tablets.

That depends on how significant and/or valuable the subset of enthusiasts who still want dedicated hardware is.

 

[xiphrex]

Im not sure streaming services can replace console or any form of gaming and hardware.

There will always be input lag. Even miniscule amounts can still put off certain gaming genres which happen to be the most popular (like FPS for example).

 

[Grim5]

Im not sure streaming services can replace console or any form of gaming and hardware.

There will always be input lag. Even miniscule amounts can still put off certain gaming genres which happen to be the most popular (like FPS for example).

I tried playing Skate 3 via Xbox cloud, completely unplayable due to the latency. Game streaming sucks

 

[Hellsmk2]

Tbh, I wouldn't be sad to see consoles die as I think they hold back PC gaming by proxy. With consoles lasting well over 5 years now, all games developed are built to run on those.

I think long term cloud gaming will take hold. I'd go as far as to say it's inevitable.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

I think the notion that the death of consoles would be good for PC gaming is a straw man argument. Similarly consoles have been the only thing keeping the games market going and without that consumer / player base most modern titles would have never been made. Gaming is a multi billion pound industry, and a niche corner of die hard PC enthusiasts is not going to prop up the market or generate any real revenue.

If consoles died, console customers would not all go out and buy gaming PC’s as a PC with comparative performance would be unaffordable. This would further consign the cutting edge of PC gaming performance to a niche corner of the market. Therefore, potential revenues from game sales would be slim. The only way out would be for component manufacturers to create a product that would provide reasonable performance for a reasonable price. Hmmmm, sounds suspiciously like a console to me!!

Any cloud based gaming systems would have to be balanced on cost vs power to make them anything like a value proposition for consumers. This would probably equate to the equivalent of consoles in order to maximise “bang for buck” for the service provider.

Just my 2p worth.

 

[The_Arbiter]

Tbh, I wouldn't be sad to see consoles die as I think they hold back PC gaming by proxy. With consoles lasting well over 5 years now, all games developed are built to run on those.

I think long term cloud gaming will take hold. I'd go as far as to say it's inevitable.

Correct me if wrong here as i don't have the foggiest about coding, but your first point is only relevant to graphics, something which is bottlenecked by lower end hardware. The PC is making more use of software enhancements currently to help lower end hardware achieve 4k, higher FPS, or raytracing, something that consoles were frowned upon for using due to poor hardware.

It feels a bit like a full circle too, the game streaming will require software trickery to compensate for bandwidth availability, or require purely less data if no viable compression is available. Streaming could become less viable if compression and bandwidth don't out perform the growth of game data, i guess? True or not, i've no idea.

I agree PC is superior in terms of available options in a software and hardware environment (gamepads/audio ports/etc) but that's due to consoles opting for cheaper hardware and software for the regular consumer, not for the enthusiast. As games appear to be more casual as time goes on, the console design is financially better for the majority due to that.

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Yeah i already posted my thoughts earlier, but a rethink on the subject:

My true opinion is it's all a bit rubbish. Pooer and unfinished games, Windows sucks, consoles with less hardware compatibility (optical out) and a general moving to digital store fronts.

Consoles dying, XB and PS consoles are pretty dead already in the traditional sense. They are now PC boxes.

 

[ooStevo]

I was so excited to get the PS5 when it released as loved the PS4 generation but I feel this generation has been a total let down in the content that’s been released. What with Sony releasing games on the PC now I feel I will probably sell my PS5 and ditch console gaming completely.

The only thing I would say is I have a steam deck and if you consider this a console I beilieve this is the future. Moving away from platform centric releases. Which I beilieve is what Phil Spencer was hinting at recently.

Interested to hear other people’s thoughts

I can't see consoles going anywhere for a while yet; although how many are actually available probably is up for more debate; I don't doubt there will be a new generation of Xbox but if that's as successful as the current one I don't see Microsoft staying in the Hardware game.

Nintendo will carry on doing what they do and likely very successfully; if anything I can see a Switch 2 being even more popular than the first; they have their own unique suite of titles along with as much 3rd party and independent support as anyone else (and its the first time we can say that about Nintendo for a very, very long time).

You do wonder if we might see other entrants; I don't think it would be a stretch to see Apple enter the market with some kind of gamified Apple TV box.

I'm sure we'll see more and more Handheld PC's although I personally think these are more of a PC market competitor than consoles, to some extent anything that needs to be handheld needs some semblance of battery life is likely to be less powerful than a dedicated home console.

I've been doing a lot of reading of almost anything I can get my hands on just now around the 90's console war after reading Blake Harris' "Console Wars" a year or so ago; I miss the sheer craziness of the market those days - with some bonkers hardware, etc - the gaming industry has become so boring, corporate and bland since its (in my opinion) early 00's peak with the likes of the PS2 and Xbox 360

The PS2, Dreamcast, GameCube Xbox and Xbox 360 plus the HD4800 and HD5000 series was absolutely peak gaming for me .I miss those days.