Is the end of Battery EVs coming?

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With the latest being Volvo, adding to Ford, GM, VW/Audi Group, Toyota & Honda, all cancelling plans to develop, expand or even continue production of battery EVs, does this signal the end for them?

Ford and Volvo haven't said what comes next however reports state that Toyota, Honda and GM are going to focus on Hydrogen, with the latter pair opting to work together.

Is this the end of the road for battery?

Hydrogen fuel cell tech has been in production cars since around 2007, Honda's FCX Clarity. It showed it does work. Unfortunately I think it came too early. I think if it came at the time the push for EVs started it would have won over BEV. However because it came too early it was shunned and forgotten about.
 
Iamzod said:
Will the rise of Hydrogen cars mean the comeback of proper engines with a decent number of cylinders?
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Not if they're talking fuel cells - the cars would still be electric drive, you'd just fill up a tank of hydrogen as your 'battery' instead. Toyota Mirai as an example.
 
Personally still think the future is petrol hybrid, we've come nowhere close to maxing out the efficiency of combustion engines and battery tech still has a long way to go yet.

Also like it or not, the lack of willingness to invest in the infrastructure for charging electric vehicles is strangling their adoption along with increased costs of charging and insuring them, never mind most being well outside of affordability for the average motorist.
 
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We've barely got a working charge network(unless you are tesla) Building a workable hydrogen one would be starting at zero and that includes being able to transport and produce it in the quantities, carbon footprint and price point needed. That's not to say it wont happen. but it's way further behind. Also, the car makers that have expressed doubts about BEV aren't very good at designing them. So OFC they want status quo
 
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Sales have flatlined over the past year and it looks like it's now going backwards. People just aren't buying EVs because of the price and limited support. The manufacturers aren't going to make something they can't sell. Same reason heatpumps are being shunned.

Paris are about to hit cars weighing over 1.6 tonnes with huge daily parking charges, which means most EVs. If that policy speeds it's RIP EVs
 
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I just don't see hydrogen being a meaningful thing for passenger vehicles its just too inefficient, you're down in the low 30%'s of efficiency at best with hydrogen once you've made it, transported it and then turned it back into electric. Far far better to just use the electric in the first place to directly charge a battery and get like 85% efficiency.

For big stuff like HGV's and shipping or whatever then sure but i don't see it in passenger cars.

If we actually had a decent joined up thinking charging network things would look very different, but thats obviously far too much to expect of government :(
 
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Iamzod said:
Will the rise of Hydrogen cars mean the comeback of proper engines with a decent number of cylinders?
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Hydrogen cars are a nonsense..... until the grid is so green that we have an over abundance of electricity that no one knows what to do with, Hydrogen is a horrible waste of energy in terms of amount of energy needed to get 1kwh of output at the wheels. Most hydrogen made at the moment is not green, and we have far better uses for what green hydrogen we can make than burning it in cars.

IF electric cars fail then it is down to missmanagement on a collosal scale and corrupt oil money peddling FUD and nonsense. Yes they are not perfect but they are better than the alternative, the transition would have been easy had the can not been kicked down the road back in the early 1980s when oil companies learned about the harm of CO2 emissions........ we cant go back so now we all have to pay the price.

if western car companies choose to reverse ferret on EVs then they are just handing the win to China.
 
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There are ~81 chargers at just over a dozen locations available within 10 miles of me, 14 in use right now, but 2/3rds of the locations have reviews like this:

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With many of them people saying they simply aren't there or couldn't be located, etc. despite being on the map.

Common comments being "Doesn't work" and "Screen is dead", etc. etc.

I know 3 locations, one at a dealer I use regularly, which have had the bays marked out, etc. and signs saying coming soon for 3+ years now.
 
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bigmike20vt said:
Hydrogen cars are a nonsense..... until the grid is so green that we have an over abundance of electricity that no one knows what to do with, Hydrogen is a horrible waste of energy in terms of amount of energy needed to get 1kwh of output at the wheels. Most hydrogen made at the moment is not green, and we have far better uses for what green hydrogen we can make than burning it in cars.

IF electric cars fail then it is down to missmanagement on a collosal scale and corrupt oil money peddling FUD and nonsense. Yes they are not perfect but they are better than the alternative, the transition would have been easy had the can not been kicked down the road back in the early 1980s when oil companies learned about the harm of CO2 emissions........ we cant go back so now we all have to pay the price.
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EVs are also a nonsense, sure they suit short journeys for owners that can afford one in the first place, and can charge at home.
Green electricity also isn’t green, when the wind stops blowing those turbines you need some sort of back up.
Great that car manufacturers have realised and are bucking the trend.
I do agree however that hydrogen isn’t the perfect solution either.
 
Maybe if cars were actually made to be practical and efficient rather than heavy high performance limousines? That would be a good place to start regardless of how they are powered.
 
SkodaMart said:
EVs are also a nonsense, sure they suit short journeys for owners that can afford one in the first place, and can charge at home.
Green electricity also isn’t green, when the wind stops blowing those turbines you need some sort of back up.
Great that car manufacturers have realised and are bucking the trend.
I do agree however that hydrogen isn’t the perfect solution either.
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The dunkelflaute is a concern i will grant you (a horrible scenario for renewable energy but i cool word so i use when ever i can ;) ), that generally happens around a period of less than 2 months of the year however. This can be mitigated to a degree however with storage as as well future planning. A backbone which isnt wind or solar is needed, I would say we need to maintain our existing nuclear for a start (and not closing down still functioning nuclear like germany has done). we are an island. tidal is a very reliable source of energy which we make very little use of.

IF we in the uk cant make a renewable and mostly carbon free energy infrastructure then the planet is well and truly stuffed.

China sells EVs which are actual practical cars starting at around £5000 iirc (i may be off a little bit) some EVs now have real world range of 300 miles and battery energy density is constantly increasing. At the same time rare earth mineral usage is dropping (and despite what the gutter press like to say batteries DONT have rare earth metals so dont believe that crap) and what rare earth minerals are used are recyleable unlike those used in fossil fuels.

we need better infrastructure.... THAT is what the press should be banging the drum over... forcing government to get the national grid improved and connection times increased..... as well as fining companies who do not service their faulty units within a certain time frame.
People who can charge at home EVs already "win" in almost any scenario.. people who cant charge at home need help, and that help has to come with better affordable infrastucture.... but NOT by going back to petrol or diesel.
 
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One factor to bear in mind. Re: car sales is that interest rates have risen, so buying/leasing a new car is now more expensive. Tbh I can see car makers like VW group, GM etc going under with the rise of the cheap/good enough EV from BYD,geely and other Chinese marques
 
bigmike20vt said:
The dunkelflaute is a concern i will grant you, that generally happens around a period of less than 2 months of the year however. This can be mitigated to a degree however with storage as as well future planning. A backbone which isnt wind or solar is needed, I would say we need to maintain our existing nuclear for a start (and not closing down still functioning nuclear like germany has done). we but are an island. tidal is a very reliable source of energy which we make very little use of.

IF we in the uk cant make a renewable and mostly carbon free energy infrastructure then the planet is well and truly stuffed.
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Yes we need nuclear energy.
I worked this out 36 years ago doing my GCSEs.
I have no idea why it’s so difficult for the energy experts to comprehend.
 
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