Is the NVidia RTX performance even worse than previously reported?

Kaapstad · 6 Sep 2018 at 09:58

Flake87 said:
If you read the original link you would see that to achieve those figures NVidia activated the DLSS part of the chip, something which consumers are unable to do according to NVIDIA DLSS gives a marked increase in fps hence the thread title, that the 35% increase quoted might be very optimistic.

This is the DLSS graph in lighter green if the figures quoted are with it enabled then the FPS rate will be lower, potentially quite a bit.

Ray Tracing which is what is quoted in the title is a different tech to DLSS.

With the DLSS figures people have taken the view that the increases will be there if and only if the game devs choose to use it.

The 35% performance increase over the 1080 Ti for a 2080 Ti would be quite possible without DLSS as there are already cards available that can do this quite easily.

DereksDontRun · 6 Sep 2018 at 12:02

all this talk of 2080ti not able to produce gamer-friendly fps at "modern" gamer resolutions - what about the other cards?

Nvidia are selling the range as RTX "suitable", not just the ti, so things have to change. Even the lower cards need to be able to produce at least 30fps at 1080 otherwise they're just not viable for the RTX tag. Whether it's just massively turning down the eye candy within each game and things are turned up to 11 for all the wow factor, dunno, but things can only be improved...

Without independent benchmarks and giving a chance for the RTX drivers/development to mature then it's too early to just complain that it's all mouth and no trousers.

Nasher · 6 Sep 2018 at 12:31

If the 2080ti is chugging along at 30fps in 1080 with RTX on, the lesser models have no chance.

KentMan · 6 Sep 2018 at 12:50

So there i was showing my mate the difference between my 1080ti and my 2080ti... i fired up BF5 on the 1080ti, slapped it to 4K mode and showed him it hitting near 50fps in all its 4k glory!, Wow he exclaimed that looks wicked, i bet the 2080ti looks even better with the RTX and DLSS features cranked up!

So i swapped in the 2080ti, fired it up to 1080p and basked in the 35fps glory of those sweet sweet sweet shadows, reflections, lights etc...

Wow he said... id ask for your 1080ti but i know your going to be using it now.....

LoadsaMoney · 6 Sep 2018 at 12:51

The DLSS can't be ran at native res though can it ?, so with that on, the 2080 isn't running those 6x DLSS games at 4k, like the 1080, its running lower, and upscaling to 4k.

Sasahara · 6 Sep 2018 at 12:57

Nasher said:
If the 2080ti is chugging along at 30fps in 1080 with RTX on, the lesser models have no chance.

That depends on how big the ray tracing section is on the 2080 chip compared to the 2080ti, it could be close.
If it is the ray tracing that is the bottleneck then performance may be close when ray tracing is used.

Though if that is the case it wouldn't be good the the people that pay the premium for the 2080ti.

opethdisciple · 6 Sep 2018 at 13:00

Maybe Nvidia have planned it so we need Sli to get RT working at acceptable fps and resolution.

So it's not just the one card toy need but two!!

LePhuronn · 6 Sep 2018 at 13:03

I have no doubt that RT performance will be a good chunk better than the woeful demos nearer time of release, and shortly after, given how quickly cobbled together everything seemed to be (2 weeks dev time in BFV, immature, almost beta drivres, etc.), but it's just a bit daft that Nvidia chose to go down the route of demoing a sub-par experience whilst commanding such a premium for the privilege. Even with a 50% boost in RT performance coming from mature drivers and proper game dev time, we're still seeing pretty low numbers when you use the expensive things you bought.

Does this mean the reason the RTX 270 is conspicuous by its absence is because there actually WON'T be a RTX 270? You can't chop down the RT and Tensor cores any more and expect anything useful to come out of it.

GTX 270? GTX 2060? Or even bin off the mid range altogether because the actual proper Turing RTX cards are coming with 7nm, and this entire 2000 series is just a 1st gen beta test?

LePhuronn · 6 Sep 2018 at 13:07

opethdisciple said:
Maybe Nvidia have planned it so we need Sli to get RT working at acceptable fps and resolution.

So it's not just the one card toy need but two!!

Well DICE have said they're not supporting SLI for BFV. That could mean there will be zero multi GPU support, or they actually mean "we're not doing traditional SLI for all you 10 series owners, but we ARE doing NVLink support for you ray tracers".

DereksDontRun · 6 Sep 2018 at 13:16

Sasahara said:
That depends on how big the ray tracing section is on the 2080 chip compared to the 2080ti, it could be close.
If it is the ray tracing that is the bottleneck then performance may be close when ray tracing is used.

Though if that is the case it wouldn't be good the the people that pay the premium for the 2080ti.

according to https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...070-rtx-2080-and-rtx-2080-ti-at-gamescom-7006

The RTX operations/sec of the 2080ti is apparently 78T, the 2080 is 60T and 2070 is 45T

So, the 2070 is just under 60% the RTX power of the 2080ti. So, there needs to be massive gains, if not at least double, otherwise there's no way the 2070 will cope with anything over 30fps at 1080. If that's not possible then there's no point it being branded as a RTX card instead of GTX.

Sasahara · 6 Sep 2018 at 14:55

Yes, it doesn't look to good for the 2070. Maybe the Ray tracing options will have a range of quality and the 2070 will have to use the lower to mid range to run at a reasonable level.

andybird123 · 6 Sep 2018 at 15:54

LoadsaMoney said:
The DLSS can't be ran at native res though can it ?, so with that on, the 2080 isn't running those 6x DLSS games at 4k, like the 1080, its running lower, and upscaling to 4k.

I think you are very confused about DLSS

mid_gen · 6 Sep 2018 at 16:14

DereksDontRun said:
according to https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...070-rtx-2080-and-rtx-2080-ti-at-gamescom-7006

The RTX operations/sec of the 2080ti is apparently 78T, the 2080 is 60T and 2070 is 45T

So, the 2070 is just under 60% the RTX power of the 2080ti. So, there needs to be massive gains, if not at least double, otherwise there's no way the 2070 will cope with anything over 30fps at 1080. If that's not possible then there's no point it being branded as a RTX card instead of GTX.

Ray tracing isn't an ON or OFF thing, there are different ways to use it. Even the 2070, if it can't handle full ray traced reflections and shadows, could probably do some amazing GI lighting that'll be miles ahead of GTX cards.

chroniclard · 6 Sep 2018 at 16:24

Is ray tracing any good for mining?

kevman · 6 Sep 2018 at 16:35

chroniclard said:
Is ray tracing any good for mining?

Good for mining peoples cash!

Seriously think I read that the rtx bit of the gpu can't be used for mining

Spook187 · 6 Sep 2018 at 16:35

chroniclard said:
Is ray tracing any good for mining?

Lol Omg.

Ayahuasca · 6 Sep 2018 at 16:55

mid_gen said:
Ray tracing isn't an ON or OFF thing, there are different ways to use it. Even the 2070, if it can't handle full ray traced reflections and shadows, could probably do some amazing GI lighting that'll be miles ahead of GTX cards.

Ssshhhh don't tell people this, they're enjoying logging in every day to tell people the RTX cards are only good for 1080p 30fps gaming.

DereksDontRun · 6 Sep 2018 at 17:26

mid_gen said:
Ray tracing isn't an ON or OFF thing, there are different ways to use it. Even the 2070, if it can't handle full ray traced reflections and shadows, could probably do some amazing GI lighting that'll be miles ahead of GTX cards.

as I've posted in the past - sure, it would great to have a slider to allow the user to adjust how much eye-candy they're happy with at the expense of fps. But... looking at the other similar options like physx and hairworks, it's usually just an on/off toggle within the game - so, you could well image the same here...

Both Nvidia and the developers for the big 3 games on show (BF5, Metro and Tomb Raider) have all been moaned at for the poor fps at a lowly 1080p with RTX on the top ti card. That would have been obvious before the launch. If it was such a linear option and not on/off, then surely they would have had it set to be adaptive to keep a 60fps??? (or at least mentioned the ability of turning it down to accommodate lower cards and higher fps).

No, I'm not saying these cards are bad, as I've said already, we can't judge them without reviews and the ndas lifted. Also (again, as already said) I don't think it's a case of TI with RTX on = ~30fps, as I'm sure things will be optimised (a lot) to ensure that at least the 2070 is capable of RTX gaming (otherwise there's no point branding them as RTX cards).

Equally (I'm hoping) the prices almost cannot be finalised until the end of the year, once old stock has gone and (hopefully) miners haven't jumped on these, so prices are adjusted to suite the market.

KentMan · 6 Sep 2018 at 17:49

a lot of this comes down to what Nvidia deem as acceptable FPS. They may say 1080p 30fps with RTX features is acceptable as that experience is acceptable for console gamers and there is a damn sight more of those than pc gamer's

LoadsaMoney · 6 Sep 2018 at 17:56

1080p 60fps won't be acceptable to all those with 4k, 1440p, UW etc... screens, as no way in hell would i run mine at 1080p, id either have to have massive black bars down the sides, or the image stretched to fill, as got a 35" 3440x1440 UW, it'll look **** running 1080p on it.