Is the situation really this bad?

You don't have to be excellent at maths to manage in ML but you certainly need to be comfortable with statistics and general numeric competency. You don't need to be able to invent new algorithms based on mathematical principles, but given a new ML model with e g. a description on a Medium article with the core equations and techniques shown, should be comfortable in digesting how the model works from a high level mathematical point. You need to easily understand concepts like recall, precision, F1 metrics, MSE, gradient descent, correlation, linear algebra, etc.
You cannot treat ML as a black box, it needs rigorous engineering for success. even if the final code might be no more than 20 lines of python.
 
Machine learning is one obvious avenue to go down, yes. Given the relative immaturity of the tech it's actually very possible to become competitive and employable in that area quite quickly, as you're not competing against people with 20 years experience....

Very true as far as the recent advances in diffusion models and LLMs are concerned, someone super enthusiastic about them can no doubt become quite valuable quite quickly. (Machine learning obviously has been around for far longer and there certainly are people with 20 years+ of experience in some fields).

Similarly, I remember around 7 years ago a friend had got a Data Science/ML job at a consultancy, TensorFlow was fairly new and deep learning had a lot of buzz around it, he was working with a team of mostly PhDs and I'd asked him if he was doing much deep learning - he explained that he was but the PhD guys were mostly sticking to quite basic stuff and using Keras as a wrapper and they were a bit shy about writing TensorFlow directly (early versions were a bit awkward at times) - he was suddenly quite a valuable team member as he was familiar with TF and very good at using it, the more experienced guys had done their PhDs in the early 00s when SVMs etc.. were all the rage. A similar sort of situation could well apply again (and certainly did two years ago) re: LLMs, agents making use of LLMs etc.

There's a level of maths needed in data science/ML/quantum that if it's not present becomes a liability and a serious risk (ie businesses making decisions based on data that has not been characterised or even understanding the distribution bias etc).

Very true re: data science, especially w.r.t to the developers who have decided to rebrand as data scientists - about 10-15 years ago there was plenty of hype around "big data" (don't hear that buzzword so much now) and Data Scientist would be the "sexiest career" of the 21st century etc. but if it's some guy with a CS undergrad who confidently chucks data at whatever model he's using from scikit-learn but doesn't really have much stats background then that's potentially quite iffy.

Though in general, I'd say it depends - for a data science type role then the maths/stats knowledge is equally important. For some applications of deep learning it's perhaps less so, there's also just less maths needed to get a general understanding of what is going on there and for people building products there isn't necessarily much need. As far as diffusion models and LLMs are concerned when the base models are so expensive to train then outside of the big labs the work is more building stuff around those models. You can fine-tune, you can add a vector database but a lot of the work there is building a web app or mobile app. There are some very successful indy devs in this space who certainly aren't maths guys, they are however experienced at building consumer apps and have spun up successful products using their web dev skillset.

And even within the few big labs making the base models (whether independent or whether within Google, Meta, X etc.) there are still other roles that don't require as much maths/ML knowledge - someone has to monitor/keep the servers running, there are roles for regular "software engineers" not just "research engineers" etc.
 
I was looking at my CV the other day, and on the subject of being adaptable....I have been :

Business Intelligence Consultant - 5 ish years - Mainly Business Objects, SSIS
Finance Analyst - a couple of contracts, mostly Excel and VBA (ha!)
Oracle PL/SQL developer - several years at different places
Flash/Actionscript/Java/Spring stack developer - 3 years
Gameplay and AI programmer - 11 years - C++

At this point I'm pretty committed to C++, but at least there are decent paying C++ jobs out there outside the games industry, if I was to pack it in (a distinct possibility with the state of the industry).
 
I'm not looking at the moment but I've noticed I get significantly fewer unsolicited approaches from recruiters on LinkedIn lately, or stumbling across posts hawking jobs I might be interested in, which is a reasonable barometer. When this thread started 18 months ago, I was still getting bombarded. I know there's usually a seasonal lull in Q4 but in recent years I'd still be getting the spam in October, November etc.
 
Last edited:
My entire office was just made redundant. Hired new people to do the same roles in South Africa...
Even when a Director offered to stump up the extra cash to keep the office for the next 12 months whilst people paid their outstanding invoices was rejected by the Managing director.

Looks like the two Directors had a falling out, so the managing director pushed the office which the other director used due to locality to close.

Lol.
 
My entire office was just made redundant. Hired new people to do the same roles in South Africa...
Even when a Director offered to stump up the extra cash to keep the office for the next 12 months whilst people paid their outstanding invoices was rejected by the Managing director.

Looks like the two Directors had a falling out, so the managing director pushed the office which the other director used due to locality to close.

Lol.
Sorry to hear that. SA is quite the threat given common timezone/language.
 
When this thread started 18 months ago, I was still getting bombarded.
18 months ago I was already 6 months into looking for a job marathon. It took me the entire year to find something. I managed to last a year employed and now I'm out of a job again and the market is as ѕhit as it was last year if not more so.

I've noticed some disturbing trends. Toxic ѕhitholes that call themselves companies were mostly ignored by candidates during the good times. This is what the "company" that I worked for last let slip several times. "We were invisible before, but now candidates keep rolling in non stop!". Outfits like that are now coming out of the woodwork and spreading their poison. This prolonged desperation from the candidates is very unhealthy and I'm pretty sure we're heading towards another great resignation that will make the last one look like nothing in comparison. This mad roller coaster is bad for everyone.
 
Sorry to hear that. SA is quite the threat given common timezone/language.
I'm actually happy.
Have been thinking about leaving for the past 6 months. I noticed they were reducing my role on the sly.
Having me train people in SA to "support me"...

I'm actually setting up a new company, doing very similar work under our own teams flag in a new office in town. It will be hard work, but I'm expecting it to work out well. I've retained my team too.
 
Last edited:
London

Everything has been quiet for most of 2024 for me
London probably has like 90% of country's tech market, if there's any market left to speak of that is, outside of London is mostly meaningless. High compensation, but high and recently sky high cost of living. I spent 10 best years of my life in London's grind with not much to show for it. London just chews you up and ***** you out.

I'm done with London and with this country for now and maybe for good. Moving out to where cost of living is way lower to lay low and weather out the storm. Market will have to improve eventually, or there will be war that everyone is talking about. In the mean while maybe I'll get lucky and land some modest remote gig. Learning some survival skills too doesn't seem such a stupid idea nowadays.
 
London probably has like 90% of country's tech market, if there's any market left to speak of that is, outside of London is mostly meaningless. High compensation, but high and recently sky high cost of living. I spent 10 best years of my life in London's grind with not much to show for it. London just chews you up and ***** you out.

I'm done with London and with this country for now and maybe for good. Moving out to where cost of living is way lower to lay low and weather out the storm. Market will have to improve eventually, or there will be war that everyone is talking about. In the mean while maybe I'll get lucky and land some modest remote gig. Learning some survival skills too doesn't seem such a stupid idea nowadays.
I keep seeing better opportunities being posted up North e.g. Manchester.
 
Over the last couple of months I'm getting less random recruiter spam than usual on linkedin, so yes it does seem quieter. The quality has improved though: far less idiocy where they've clearly not read the profile at all or ones smelling like a scam.

I get a lot of spam like this - they just look for people who have the same Job title and spam the same message to all of them
 
Home country? It has been on my mind for awhile, especially seeing some of my friends who moved and haven't looked back or speaking to the ones who are in the process.
Indeed. It can be a little paradise, especially for those who work remotely. I'm not trying to sugar coat it either - if you don't speak the language of the country you live in - there are gonna be some hurdles, but maybe less so nowadays with the advent of Google Translate and ChatGPT. In the end there's no perfect country, there are just those that suck less.
 
Back
Top Bottom