Is the situation really this bad?

[D.P.]

Or they're only interested in people/peasants willing to jump through the hoops of impersonal processes. Depends on the level of the role in my view. Using that as a screening mechanism for a senior/exec role where dealing with people is actually far more important than technical skills will lose them a lot of good candidates right off the bat.

For me that process would be a major red flag and highly likely a "no" straight away. I would certainly want to know how long they would keep the video, both when you got the job and also didn't.

you seem too focused on a few false negatives. The process is designed to maximize the pool of suitable candidates by weeding out as many true negatives in an objective fashion that doesn't discriminate.

 

[neverminder]

I guess as a retort, if all the guidance is out there and you can prep - there is no excuse. If you aren't willing to put the effort in, well that's sufficient understanding of the candidate already nailed.

Edit: beaten by @D.P.

Ironically, ChatGPT completely ruined that style of interviewing when it comes to automation. The likes of Codility, Leetcode, Hackerrank, etc are in complete panic, because they are basically worthless now.

 

[D.P.]

Ironically, ChatGPT completely ruined that style of interviewing when it comes to automation. The likes of Codility, Leetcode, Hackerrank, etc are in complete panic, because they are basically worthless now.

Hardly, because you interview them live.

Remember, the goal is to observe the candidate in how they solve problems.and communicate. The solution is irrelevant.

What is useless is small take home programming exercises that can be easily finished using chatGPT and stack overflow. Larger more complex projects where you can test architecture decisions etc have merit but not many people can spend 3 days on a coding interview.


So really the value in things like leetcode have never been higher in accessing potential

 

[HangTime]

20 years ago was a completely different era, so what do you expect?

Not only that but there was a technology barrier i.e. 20 years ago internet connections were worse, webcams less common (more people using desktops, no smartphones and most laptops didn't come with one) and there can't have been much in the way of video interview software - heck, even Youtube didn't exist then. 20 years ago live video interviews weren't a thing either but I think that's a change for the positive, saves a lot of travel time/cost and makes it feasible to fit interviews in around a working day instead of having to book time off.

 

[D.P.]

Not only that but there was a technology barrier i.e. 20 years ago internet connections were worse, webcams less common (more people using desktops, no smartphones and most laptops didn't come with one) and there can't have been much in the way of video interview software - heck, even Youtube didn't exist then. 20 years ago live video interviews weren't a thing either but I think that's a change for the positive, saves a lot of travel time/cost and makes it feasible to fit interviews in around a working day instead of having to book time off.

Exactly. Some people just want to live in the stone age.


It used to be you could only hire locally due to the inability to have wide outreach or afford to pay for travel. Now you can reach out to thousands of people across the globe, and give opportunities to hundreds of people that might not have had the means to apply.

The flip side is you have far more people applying so you have to streamline the process and filter the applicant list you those most likely to be successful, rather than those just applying for the LOLs.

 

[neverminder]

Interviewed with a couple of companies this week that were offering the kind of low ball compensation that I wouldn't have even considered in the past. Responses from both that they are proceeding with other candidates, because they have so many. First time in my life thinking that maybe it's time for a change of profession, because this situation is just insane.

 

[jon86]

Interviewed with a couple of companies this week that were offering the kind of low ball compensation that I wouldn't have even considered in the past. Responses from both that they are proceeding with other candidates, because they have so many. First time in my life thinking that maybe it's time for a change of profession, because this situation is just insane.

What profession and what kind of low ball compensation was on offer?

 

[malachi]

Randomly this appeared in my feed. Interesting information about companies hiring process.

You're Not Imagining It...Looking For A Job Is Getting Worse

You're Not Imagining It...Looking For A Job Is Getting Worse. Looking for a new job in today's job market isn't easy. With mass layoffs, employers forcing ...

youtu.be

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Randomly this appeared in my feed. Interesting information about companies hiring process.

You're Not Imagining It...Looking For A Job Is Getting Worse

You're Not Imagining It...Looking For A Job Is Getting Worse. Looking for a new job in today's job market isn't easy. With mass layoffs, employers forcing ...

youtu.be

I'd say yes that's entirely true, I thought initially is this in my head? no i'm realising it isnt. Going by a lot of devs getting an entry role 2-3 years ago sounded way easier.... now it's insanely difficult it feels like. A lot of the old advice or old anecdotes are worthless.

This is now the new norm and likely to get worse when we hit a recession and the BoE continues to hike interest rates so suddenly.

 

[neverminder]

Randomly this appeared in my feed. Interesting information about companies hiring process.

You're Not Imagining It...Looking For A Job Is Getting Worse

You're Not Imagining It...Looking For A Job Is Getting Worse. Looking for a new job in today's job market isn't easy. With mass layoffs, employers forcing ...

youtu.be

This guy is in the US, he's generalizing and mostly talking about stuff that is pretty obvious. But I don't think the situation is nearly as bad in the US as it is in the UK. As someone said - over here it's a perfect storm. Consequences of Brexit, Corona, money printing, energy crisis, mass redundancies in tech and now interest rate hike fell like a bag of bricks all at once.

It annoys the hell out of me seeing UK mass media still spouting the usual BS how there's still shortage of tech workers and salaries are growing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I thought that the day when an experienced Scala/Java dev can't find work in freaking London of all places would never come and if it did there would be bigger problems to worry about such as 3rd world war or extinction grade asteroid coming or something. Although ironically right now I would rather be in one of those events, because they tend to reduce the inequality.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

This guy is in the US, he's generalizing and mostly talking about stuff that is pretty obvious. But I don't think the situation is nearly as bad in the US as it is in the UK. As someone said - over here it's a perfect storm. Consequences of Brexit, Corona, money printing, energy crisis, mass redundancies in tech and now interest rate hike fell like a bag of bricks all at once.

It annoys the hell out of me seeing UK mass media still spouting the usual BS how there's still shortage of tech workers and salaries are growing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I thought that the day when an experienced Scala/Java dev can't find work in freaking London of all places would never come and if it did there would be bigger problems to worry about such as 3rd world war or extinction grade asteroid coming or something. Although ironically right now I would rather be in one of those events, because they tend to reduce the inequality.

Yeah it's hogwash, the UK Tech industry is likely less resilient than America just due to the fact we haven't got as many big comapanies that started here organically.

If it's tough for people with experience, think about us guys looking for entry roles. As I said lot of old coding advice was reasonable and people talking about landing first roles etc was probably true 2-3 years ago.

There just are no roles period, and ones that exist are going to have triple the people applying for them probably. Bad times.

And it's bad now, like I said how much worse is it going to get?

 

[jonneymendoza]

20 years ago was a completely different era, so what do you expect?

I would say that the process is probably working well because if you can't be bothered with the initial step then your enthusiasm and work ethic might also be questionable if hired.

Disagree. Plenty of brilliant engineers who can't be bothered doing pointless university degree tests unrelated to there day to day job who have shown a lot more enthusiasm than those who like doing those coding tests.

And when faced with a agdyak actual real world problem at work, no leet code style tests is going to save you

 

[jonneymendoza]

Yeah it's hogwash, the UK Tech industry is likely less resilient than America just due to the fact we haven't got as many big comapanies that started here organically.

If it's tough for people with experience, think about us guys looking for entry roles. As I said lot of old coding advice was reasonable and people talking about landing first roles etc was probably true 2-3 years ago.

There just are no roles period, and ones that exist are going to have triple the people applying for them probably. Bad times.

And it's bad now, like I said how much worse is it going to get?

Why is it bad?

Has everyone stopped using websites, apps and any IT related tech?

 

[jonneymendoza]

Hardly, because you interview them live.

Remember, the goal is to observe the candidate in how they solve problems.and communicate. The solution is irrelevant.

What is useless is small take home programming exercises that can be easily finished using chatGPT and stack overflow. Larger more complex projects where you can test architecture decisions etc have merit but not many people can spend 3 days on a coding interview.


So really the value in things like leetcode have never been higher in accessing potential

The solution is not irrelevant. Plenty still hire only if the solution is correct.

 

[neverminder]

If it's tough for people with experience, think about us guys looking for entry roles.

I hear ya. Getting that first job is the hardest, I remember that all too well. But I'd swap places in a heartbeat, if I could be young and broke again rather than older and broke. Living in some crappy sharehouse, little money would go a long way, but when you're older and have more commitments, your burn rate and exposure is exponentially higher. The higher you climb the harder the fall.

 

[gazref]

Why is it bad?

Has everyone stopped using websites, apps and any IT related tech?

a lot of the Dev work probably gets off shored to cheaper labour markets. I'd be reskilling and moving into another sector or more niche if you love dev-ing.

I'm in a booming sector but I'm well the time will come when it's flooded and time to make an exit.
We had it all in the 90s with IT where people were leaving respectable jobs to take higher paying roles in IT

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Why is it bad?

Has everyone stopped using websites, apps and any IT related tech?

I mean economic downturn simply just means dev jobs evapourate (well that applies probably to a lot of sectors), juniors / entry probably first then some seniors will get cut.

I did a bootcamp, and our careers team that help us with roles even said the available roles of last few months have gone down dramatically.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

a lot of the Dev work probably gets off shored to cheaper labour markets. I'd be reskilling and moving into another sector or more niche if you love dev-ing.

I'm in a booming sector but I'm well the time will come when it's flooded and time to make an exit.
We had it all in the 90s with IT where people were leaving respectable jobs to take higher paying roles in IT

This too, and now with chatGPT I guess eventually the devs people do have will become more productive, ergo less devs needed to complete the same about of work a few years ago.

Maybe i'm a bit nuts going into this sector lmao. I've just been using computers my entire life since 13 and a lot, so thought well maybe switch careers into something i'm more naturally drawn to.

 

[malachi]

This guy is in the US, he's generalizing and mostly talking about stuff that is pretty obvious. But I don't think the situation is nearly as bad in the US as it is in the UK. As someone said - over here it's a perfect storm. Consequences of Brexit, Corona, money printing, energy crisis, mass redundancies in tech and now interest rate hike fell like a bag of bricks all at once.

It annoys the hell out of me seeing UK mass media still spouting the usual BS how there's still shortage of tech workers and salaries are growing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Yeah it's hogwash, the UK Tech industry is likely less resilient than America just due to the fact we haven't got as many big comapanies that started here organically.

The reason why I posted this link because the same hiring process is not related to only the US. Plenty of companies are adopting the same hiring process, regardless of where they are based. Because they have "too many people" applying, so they say.

Amazon
Microsoft
Fifa
PWC
KPMG
UBS
Credit Suisse

I can mention other unknown, non tech companies. I have interview with over the past 12 months. Based in the UK and here in Switzerland they all adopt the US based way of hiring. This is worldwide and coming the norm. Which is ridiculous.

And don't get me started on, even if you have to jump through hoops and get an interview or you go through the multi stage interview. The company ends up ghosting you

 

[neverminder]

The reason why I posted this link because the same hiring process is not related to only the US. Plenty of companies are adopting the same hiring process, regardless of where they are based. Because they have "too many people" applying, so they say.

Amazon
Microsoft
Fifa
PWC
KPMG
UBS
Credit Suisse

I can mention other unknown, non tech companies. I have interview with over the past 12 months. Based in the UK and here in Switzerland they all adopt the US based way of hiring. This is worldwide.

From personal experience of interviewing with at least 50 companies in the last 12 years here in London, not one of them did the FAANG style interview. In fact except the very first job 12 years ago, the last 4 jobs I got by doing single stage 30-45 minute conversation style interview. These were companies varying from very small to big international corporations, although none of them were in tech industry. So at least in my experience when a company actually wants to hire, they move fast and don't drag it out into 7 stage interviews.