Is the sugar in grapes good or bad?

[Psycho Sonny]

Fruit juice is unhealthy in the quantities people tend to consumer it (pint glass or 500ml bottle). No amount of vitamins/antioxidants/etc balances out the effect of the sugar hit you get from fruit juice.

200ml drank with food? You are in ok territory.
Chugging an 500ml bottle on the go? Not so much.

fruit juice isn't in it's natural state. e.g. fruit.

this is why i dislike all these faddy juicing diets. same goes for smoothies. although in a smoothie it's still got the fibre. it's been processed. that act in itself is something your stomach and teeth should be doing. not a blender.

processing food uses calories. so by using a blender. even consuming the same number of calories one will make you put on more weight. you could also argue refining will make it easier for the body to process so it hits you quicker rather than a slow sustained release through digestion. all of these effect the body in different ways.

so juices and smoothies are a lot worse for you than eating them in their natural state.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Coke is toxic because it is made of concentrates and acids - the phosphoric acid is concentrated enough to remove rust and to decay your teeth very, very quickly. Not to mention it is a narcotic which makes you addictive to it. Just like coffee. Meh...

Fruit juice is not unhealthy. Unhealthy food is fast food like burgers, french fries with lots of salt and oil, and different biscuits, sweets, etc.

fruit juice is unhealthy. see above.

 

[4K8KW10]

fruit juice is unhealthy. see above.

Fruit juice is healthy. It is just the sweet water from the fruit.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Fruit juice is healthy. It is just the sweet water from the fruit.

you could eat 5 apples no issues

5 glasses of apple juice however - unhealthy

a glass a day won't do much harm. in larger quantities than a glass a day you would be better off eating fruit

 

[pooley]

Grapes are extremely sugary and eating a lot of them in one go will result in a nice spike in your blood sugar and a pretty sharp resultant fall. Sort of the same as eating a load of sweets! Sharp rises and falls in your blood sugar tend to make you feel hungrier, eat more and can affect your mood. The key is to try for a carbohydrate source which doesn't cause such rapid changes in blood sugar levels over the course of the day.

the trouble with your claim is that the fructose in the grapes does need not the hormone insulin to pull it into the cell so it can convert into energy 'ATP'
all other inferior carbohydrates glucose, dextrose etc do need insulin with can cause the issues you mentioned

 

[pooley]

fruit juice isn't in it's natural state. e.g. fruit.

this is why i dislike all these faddy juicing diets. same goes for smoothies. although in a smoothie it's still got the fibre. it's been processed. that act in itself is something your stomach and teeth should be doing. not a blender.

processing food uses calories. so by using a blender. even consuming the same number of calories one will make you put on more weight. you could also argue refining will make it easier for the body to process so it hits you quicker rather than a slow sustained release through digestion. all of these effect the body in different ways.

so juices and smoothies are a lot worse for you than eating them in their natural state.

i did a 3 month juice fast/diet last summer as i wanted to clean my body of years of eating what we consider the norm
drank 4 ltrs of juice a day for that time, watermelon/grape/orange
in doing so i lost weight, cleaned my bowels of a lot of old 'food' that was still in there as i was still pooping 2 months later i had lots of energy and felt pretty good
i will be doing another at some point, probably next summer
so i don't really agree with your claim here, having said that eating the fruit is way to go over juicing it....

 

[tom_nieto]

the trouble with your claim is that the fructose in the grapes does need not the hormone insulin to pull it into the cell so it can convert into energy 'ATP'
all other inferior carbohydrates glucose, dextrose etc do need insulin with can cause the issues you mentioned

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/76/5/911/4689540

Fructose doesn't stimulate the pancreas to produce as much insulin as other sugars. You are correct that this could lead to higher blood sugar levels (insulin causes sugars to be taken out of the blood into cells). It is the raised blood sugar and the blood sugar spikes caused by the ingestion of carbohydrates such as high fructose corn syrup (and grapes) that result in insulin resistance, weight gain and eventually diabetes with all its related problems. In the short term it causes poor appetite regulation and could alter mood.

"The combined effects of lowered circulating leptin and insulin in individuals who consume diets that are high in dietary fructose could therefore increase the likelihood of weight gain and its associated metabolic sequelae. In addition, fructose, compared with glucose, is preferentially metabolized to lipid in the liver. Fructose consumption induces insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriacylglycerolemia, and hypertension in animal models."

*Leptin is a hormone which regulates appetite and satiety and is connected with insulin secretion.

 

[dl8860]

humoured ? google them, to see the rest, but these rules are good
1. Eat food Good one
2. Don’t eat anything your great‐grandmother wouldn’t recognize as food Nonsense
3. Avoid food products containing ingredients that no ordinary human would keep in the pantry What the **** does this even mean
4. Avoid food products that contain high‐fructose corn syrup Good idea
5. Avoid food products that have some form of sugar (or sweetener listed among) the top three ingredients Generally a good idea
6. Avoid food products that have more than 5 ingredients Rubbish, I'm not allowed to put more than 5 spices/ingredients into curries, marinades, BBQ sauces etc?
7. Avoid food products containing ingredients that a third‐grader cannot pronounce Rubbish
8. Avoid food products that make health claims Or use critical thinking, some can make valid health claims
9. Avoid food products with the wordoid “lite” or the terms “low fat” or “nonfat” in their names Again just a bit of critical thinking. If 'lite' versions contain loads of sugar to replace fat, then fine avoid. But if 'lite' means less fat and the calories/taste is made up for with something else, or just not at all, then it can be a good choice.
10. Avoid foods that are pretending to be something they are not Like what?
11. Avoid foods you see advertised on television OK I'll never eat milk or eggs again. Good one.

Preachy load of cobblers

 

[pooley]

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/76/5/911/4689540

Fructose doesn't stimulate the pancreas to produce as much insulin as other sugars. You are correct that this could lead to higher blood sugar levels (insulin causes sugars to be taken out of the blood into cells). It is the raised blood sugar and the blood sugar spikes caused by the ingestion of carbohydrates such as high fructose corn syrup (and grapes) that result in insulin resistance, weight gain and eventually diabetes with all its related problems. In the short term it causes poor appetite regulation and could alter mood.

"The combined effects of lowered circulating leptin and insulin in individuals who consume diets that are high in dietary fructose could therefore increase the likelihood of weight gain and its associated metabolic sequelae. In addition, fructose, compared with glucose, is preferentially metabolized to lipid in the liver. Fructose consumption induces insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriacylglycerolemia, and hypertension in animal models."

*Leptin is a hormone which regulates appetite and satiety and is connected with insulin secretion.

pitting high fructose corn syrup which is a highly processed man made substance against a whole food like grapes is just short sighted at best and then go and claim it leads to diabetes is laughable
for diabetics, fructose is perfect, especially if they remove complex sugars from their diets
complex sugars create excessive glucose levels in the blood, which then creates more insulin demand
not sure what animal models they used but to give fructose to to animals herbivores who say eat lots of grasses, leaves etc which is glucose i'm not surprised it caused issues

 

[PiKe]

MIL is diabetic but eats lots a fruit because 'its good for you'.

*facepalm*

 

[Psycho Sonny]

i did a 3 month juice fast/diet last summer as i wanted to clean my body of years of eating what we consider the norm
drank 4 ltrs of juice a day for that time, watermelon/grape/orange
in doing so i lost weight, cleaned my bowels of a lot of old 'food' that was still in there as i was still pooping 2 months later i had lots of energy and felt pretty good
i will be doing another at some point, probably next summer
so i don't really agree with your claim here, having said that eating the fruit is way to go over juicing it....

you honestly think you had stored up 2 months worth of poo in your system which was cleaned out by juicing?

what a load of crap literally.

2 months worth of poo is akin to like 60kg+ for a grown man.

so did you lose 60+ kg in bodyweight?

the reason you lost weight is simply calories you were ingesting were lower than the crap you normally eat.

i could go on a diet where all i do is drink Guinness and lose weight. doesn't mean it's a great idea.

 

[d_brennen]

i could go on a diet where all i do is drink Guinness and lose weight. doesn't mean it's a great idea.

Did this once, it isn't great at all

 

[pooley]

you honestly think you had stored up 2 months worth of poo in your system which was cleaned out by juicing?

what a load of crap literally.

2 months worth of poo is akin to like 60kg+ for a grown man.

so did you lose 60+ kg in bodyweight?

the reason you lost weight is simply calories you were ingesting were lower than the crap you normally eat.

i could go on a diet where all i do is drink Guinness and lose weight. doesn't mean it's a great idea.

ok son you crack on lolz

 

[tom_nieto]

pitting high fructose corn syrup which is a highly processed man made substance against a whole food like grapes is just short sighted at best and then go and claim it leads to diabetes is laughable
for diabetics, fructose is perfect, especially if they remove complex sugars from their diets
complex sugars create excessive glucose levels in the blood, which then creates more insulin demand
not sure what animal models they used but to give fructose to to animals herbivores who say eat lots of grasses, leaves etc which is glucose i'm not surprised it caused issues

Not sure if serious?

High fructose corn syrup and high fructose fruit is metabolically very similar. Perhaps I should have said high fructose containing foodstuffs (like grapes).

I’m afraid you’ve missed the point about how insulin and carbohydrate metabolism works.

Carbohydrate enters the GI tract and then sugars enter the bloodstream (at differing rates depending on the sugar, fructose enters the bloodstream very rapidly). Insulin is secreted in response to carbohydrate entering the GI tract and increased blood sugar levels. Insulin acts to increase cellular uptake of carbohydrate and reduce blood sugar levels. Fructose doesn’t cause the pancreas to secrete as much insulin and therefore renders the subject relatively hyperglycaemic. Fructose has also been demonstrated to contribute to insulin resistance.

High blood sugar is bad. Blood sugar spikes are bad. Advising a diabetic to have fructose could not be worse advice due to the rapid uptake into the bloodstream rendering blood sugars incredibly difficult to control with extrinsic insulin. A more complex carbohydrate with a slower uptake is much more suitable for optimal control of blood sugar in diabetics. @pooley please don’t ever advise a diabetic on their diet.

 

[pooley]

Not sure if serious?

High fructose corn syrup and high fructose fruit is metabolically very similar. Perhaps I should have said high fructose containing foodstuffs (like grapes).

I’m afraid you’ve missed the point about how insulin and carbohydrate metabolism works.

Carbohydrate enters the GI tract and then sugars enter the bloodstream (at differing rates depending on the sugar, fructose enters the bloodstream very rapidly). Insulin is secreted in response to carbohydrate entering the GI tract and increased blood sugar levels. Insulin acts to increase cellular uptake of carbohydrate and reduce blood sugar levels. Fructose doesn’t cause the pancreas to secrete as much insulin and therefore renders the subject relatively hyperglycaemic. Fructose has also been demonstrated to contribute to insulin resistance.

High blood sugar is bad. Blood sugar spikes are bad. Advising a diabetic to have fructose could not be worse advice due to the rapid uptake into the bloodstream rendering blood sugars incredibly difficult to control with extrinsic insulin. A more complex carbohydrate with a slower uptake is much more suitable for optimal control of blood sugar in diabetics. @pooley please don’t ever advise a diabetic on their diet.

fructose does not need insulin, it works by diffusion into the cell
an oxymoron if i ever did read one. must be great riding that rollercoater, if someone is having sugar metabolism problems then maybe they should look at the condition of adrenal glands
i don't advise anyone not my place but thanks for asking...

 

[jpaul]

Preachy load of cobblers

it is tongue in cheek full list & book
Michael Pollan’s 64 Food Rules

but compared to a ludicrous juice diet (I know you were not making a comparison) to cure yourself from the crap diet he normally eats

 

[pooley]

it is tongue in cheek full list & book
Michael Pollan’s 64 Food Rules

but compared to a ludicrous juice diet (I know you were not making a comparison) to cure yourself from the crap diet he normally eats

when i asked you to 'humour' me as to what this balanced diet that is good for you that you claimed obviously went over your head as i was just being polite
and to 'cure' myself from a crap diet just lol

 

[tom_nieto]

fructose does not need insulin, it works by diffusion into the cell
an oxymoron if i ever did read one. must be great riding that rollercoater, if someone is having sugar metabolism problems then maybe they should look at the condition of adrenal glands
i don't advise anyone not my place but thanks for asking...

Cool, if you had bothered to read the paper which I linked, which gives a very nice summary of glycolysis, you’d realise why fructose results in increased lipid storage in the liver and insulin resistance.

Do you alkalinise your food also?

 

[pooley]

Cool, if you had bothered to read the paper which I linked, which gives a very nice summary of glycolysis, you’d realise why fructose results in increased lipid storage in the liver and insulin resistance.

Do you alkalinise your food also?

I skimmed through the paper and what? all it tells me is that why test using rats and dogs who by design have totally different dietary needs to us and why not use humans or primates at least ?it rambles on about hfcs and sodas and high fat intake, it does state at least twice the fact that fructose does not need insulin! and it concludes insulin resistance yeah ok, so lets not eat fruit smh..
over the last four years i have cut out/down acid ash forming foods if that is any use to you?

 

[tom_nieto]

I skimmed through the paper and what? all it tells me is that why test using rats and dogs who by design have totally different dietary needs to us and why not use humans or primates at least ?it rambles on about hfcs and sodas and high fat intake, it does state at least twice the fact that fructose does not need insulin! and it concludes insulin resistance yeah ok, so lets not eat fruit smh..
over the last four years i have cut out/down acid ash forming foods if that is any use to you?

The point of animal models is that their metabolic processes are very similar to humans - especially those which break down sugars by glycolysis. Anyway, I hope you've learned a little from some evidence based research about why fructose is generally a "bad sugar" and is implicated in a number of global health epidemics.

Not eating fruit is not the point I was trying to make. To address the original question, grapes are full of fructose, eating loads of grapes all the time may lead to problems. If you're eating a few now and again, go ahead and enjoy yourself!

I'm not going to get started on "acidic foods" unless you're talking about acid reflux!