ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Rroff said:
Sadly I feel Assad is a classic case of the road to hell is paved with good intentions and you can't be a strong man in that region of the world and not get your hands dirty. .
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Oh dear, you think Assad has "good intentions"? His intentions are clinging to power, a bit like his friend Putin.

He's not good for the country or region, just look what happens to people in Lebanon who criticize the regime.
 
Hannibal Buress said:
Essentially - if you like your western lifestyle, support US. If you don't like western lifestyle, support anyone but US. Russia is trying to discredit US almost out of spite, despite Putin saving his ill gotten gains in USD and selling their oil in USD. Russia as a country has absolutely nothing to gain in going against US - but Putin has a lot to gain by looking good to his people and be anti-western.
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Why do you have to support anyone?

It's not black and white/good or bad.

Its like two bigger brothers wading into a scuffle amongst a group kids, helping their younger brother against the people they were scuffling with.

It basically boils down to schoolyard politics, pure and simple.

They're both as bad as each other, especially with Trump at the helm right now.
 
h4rm0ny said:
I'd say if you like your Western lifestyle focus less on waging wars in oil rich areas of the Middle East and more on energy independence and not giving ever more of your tax dollars to the military-industrial complex (if American). Exacerbating civil unrest in the Middle East and antagonising other world powers is not going to make your new dishwasher cheaper or keep house prices down.

The USA enforces the use of the USD for oil selling. They made Saudi Arabia legally commit to selling in USD in the Seventies! They destroyed Iraq which was trying to sell oil in Euros. Libya wanted to sell oil using a new "African Euro" backed by their own gold reserves, Venezuela was threatened for daring to buy oil from Iran. The US really, really doesn't like people selling oil other than in USD and responds with sanctions and / or missiles if you try. The reason being that having the US dollar be the global reserve currency gives them a huge amount of influence and ensures endless credit to service their £20trn in debt.

Also, Russia "discredits the US out of spite"? So sanctions imposed by the USA on Russia, military forces by the USA on their doorstep surrounding their country, attempts to build US power bases throughout the Middle East? These have nothing to do with it? Russia is just inherently spiteful and likes criticising the USA? Also, you realise that Russia has been attempting to reach out to the USA and improve relations for years? Does that sounds "spiteful" to you?
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Remember, the Cuban missile crisis was entirely Russia's fault as well. Nothing to do with Russia putting missiles on Cuba in retaliation for the US installing missiles in Turkey.

Too many people seem to think the actions of the US are more justifiable than the same actions of Russia for some odd reasons, then blame Russia for their reaction.

That's not to say Russia is a good guy here, rather that the US is just as bad - see the analogy of the school playground fight.
 
Johno please? said:
Oh dear, you think Assad has "good intentions"? His intentions are clinging to power, a bit like his friend Putin.

He's not good for the country or region, just look what happens to people in Lebanon who criticize the regime.
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I think he started out with good intentions - there is plenty of evidence to support it - I'm not talking about things currently.
 
Rroff said:
I think he started out with good intentions - there is plenty of evidence to support it - I'm not talking about things currently.
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Now? A large proportion of it may well be a fight for survival. It's been clearly stated by the US and rebels that if he loses he and wuite possibly much of his family and top level of government will either be incarcerated or executed.

Who wouldn't fight tooth and nail to stop that happening? One of the worst things the Us has done in the Syria conflict is take sides with the opposition and insist Assad must leave and answer for his "crimes".
 
Rroff said:
I think he started out with good intentions - there is plenty of evidence to support it - I'm not talking about things currently.
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Bashar al-Assad is the second son of the previous ruler. He actually wanted to be a doctor as far as I can tell - he graduated from medical school, worked as a doctor in the army for four years (Syria has national service though someone in his position could have got out of it if he chose). After that, he moved to London and did further studies at an eye hospital to become an ophthalmologist.

However, his elder brother was killed in a car crash and he was summoned back to Syria to start preparing for leadership. Joined the military academy and took over when his father died.

Whatever Bashar al-Assad's intentions may have been, his situation determined his path. When you're put in such a position, over such a country, your goal is stability first. As Amp34 insightfully pointed out, the USA would like to see him "answer for his crimes". There are precedents of Saddam Hussein and Col. Gadhafi for him to look to if he is uncertain what that means.

So really the course is lain out for him and peaceful negotiation with the USA was never offered. For what that's worth.
 
h4rm0ny said:
Bashar al-Assad is the second son of the previous ruler. He actually wanted to be a doctor as far as I can tell - he graduated from medical school, worked as a doctor in the army for four years (Syria has national service though someone in his position could have got out of it if he chose). After that, he moved to London and did further studies at an eye hospital to become an ophthalmologist.

However, his elder brother was killed in a car crash and he was summoned back to Syria to start preparing for leadership. Joined the military academy and took over when his father died.

Whatever Bashar al-Assad's intentions may have been, his situation determined his path. When you're put in such a position, over such a country, your goal is stability first. As Amp34 insightfully pointed out, the USA would like to see him "answer for his crimes". There are precedents of Saddam Hussein and Col. Gadhafi for him to look to if he is uncertain what that means.

So really the course is lain out for him and peaceful negotiation with the USA was never offered. For what that's worth.
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You left out the part where he started killing civilians 6yrs ago....
 
I wonder what will happen to the Kurds once ISIS is dealt with fully. The Turks are itching for a reason to squash them as a growing power.
IronWarrior said:
Civilian deaths are impossible to avoid in a war like this, especially when the terrorists are hiding among them, building tunnels and networks under the cities and towns, using the civilians as human shields, using schools and hospitals as bases.
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I think he might be referring to when Army tanks and troops starting shooting demonstrators who were civilians...
 
Washout said:
I wonder what will happen to the Kurds once ISIS is dealt with fully. The Turks are itching for a reason to squash them as a growing power.


I think he might be referring to when Army tanks and troops starting shooting demonstrators who were civilians...
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There's a general problem with all Arab/middle-east militaries, if we assume since it was early on, that it was purely Syrian armed forces, then any number of people could have given the order.

Not to say Assad didn't do so himself, probably did frankly, but this isnt a modern military force we're talking about, it's more like a mercenary group with better infrastructure.
 
There is a lot going in the middle east. Every one is fighting for something, but the poeple of syria are killed over forign agenda. The ISIS along with other organizations are fighting proxy wars for US, Russia and KSA.
Bashar ul asad wants to save his country as he was the promised prince of syria but this promise is conflicting with the forign bodies like Israel and US. That is what the war is all about they want the land to create a greater israel.
 
JammieR said:
There is a lot going in the middle east. Every one is fighting for something, but the poeple of syria are killed over forign agenda. The ISIS along with other organizations are fighting proxy wars for US, Russia and KSA.
Bashar ul asad wants to save his country as he was the promised prince of syria but this promise is conflicting with the forign bodies like Israel and US. That is what the war is all about they want the land to create a greater israel.
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lmao "the isis"

Yea I bloody hate the isis.

I get the impression you've read globalresearch.com.

As for ISIS, their days are numbered, anyone see the video of one of the bearded little fascists moaning about lack of support from other muslims back home? :D
 
Johno please? said:
lmao "the isis"

Yea I bloody hate the isis.

I get the impression you've read globalresearch.com.

As for ISIS, their days are numbered, anyone see the video of one of the bearded little fascists moaning about lack of support from other muslims back home? :D
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I have read a number of things and talked to a number of people, back in 2005 when i was in pakistan and china. That why i know things that are not published on the internet. ISIS is another version of Al-Qaida but more furious version of it. They recruit soldiers on high cash payments and they pay them monthly. Its like a company recruiting freshers. Don't know about how many days they have left, but i know that this business model will never stop until the big players stop invading small countries.
 
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