ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

amigafan2003 said:
Strawman deflection.
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Okay. Now take a step back. What states in the world are currently experiencing a civil war? What states have one party in the civil strife lead by religious extremists? What group of religious extremists are committing acts of terror against civilian populations in their own nations, nearby nations, and many foreign nations?

ISIS cannot exists if they do not hold land, the Caliphate will crumble without physical holdings. It might return again, but until they are beaten back and disrupted, they will persist.
So we pick a side in this civil war, and let them disrupt ISIS, let Russia pick a side and assist them, until ISI is gone, then decide to resort the remaining mess after the Caliphate is gone.
 
Werewolf said:
Mainly because the rebels don't wear uniforms, don't live in nice obvious military bases, don't ride around in clearly marked vehicles, and are often indistinguishable from the general population (who are also often armed), until they actually do something.
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They hold swatches of land, if you disrupt, then they crumble, and will not be ISIS, just rebel groups, terrorist cells, it will all be the same people under different names, but they won't be able to use a bull **** holy doctrine to claim they are doing it in their God's name.
 
Werewolf said:
Or to put it another way.
It's about the only time in recent history that most of the Arab nations have agreed on anything, the fact that Iran and Iraq have signed a pact together is probably one of the biggest things given their normal relations.
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Or maybe Iran realises how advantageous it is for the world to be thinking its a fluffy lovely creature now, you can bet they are gauging Iraq's defenses whilst "helping them".

People really need to stop thinking this is the holy grail of intra-national cooperation.

Once ISIS is quenched, it will rise again at some point, perhaps a new name to glorify the point of everlasting threat that tickles western interests with utter glee that their investments in defense tech. doesn't go to waste.

This could turn pretty quickly into a massive disaster, too many cooks in the kitchen drenched in blood, somebody will want more, naturally I believe Turkey will eventually go face-face with Russia, a war has been brewing for awhile and neither like eachother.
 
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Hikari Kisugi said:
They hold swatches of land, if you disrupt, then they crumble, and will not be ISIS, just rebel groups, terrorist cells, it will all be the same people under different names, but they won't be able to use a bull **** holy doctrine to claim they are doing it in their God's name.
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Far easier said than done, ISIS are mobile, familiar with the ground they don't "hold" territory so much as exert influence over it usually by fear, to really defeat them you need lots and lots of intel on the ground, surgical operations to remove the people in command and regular infantry to maintain perimeters as you pick them apart.
 
The whole Caliphate thing is a big deal though - with that gone they lose any "position of authority" with many of the other groups - some would likely be at their throats the moment it crumbled.
 
Werewolf said:
Or to put it another way.
It's about the only time in recent history that most of the Arab nations have agreed on anything, the fact that Iran and Iraq have signed a pact together is probably one of the biggest things given their normal relations.
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Or the fact that Iraq is now controlled by the Shiits oppose to the Sunnis, which have controlled it for many years hence the cooperation now.
 
amigafan2003 said:
Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE, and Jordan have all conducted air strikes against ISIS, although less so since Russian and US strikes stepped up in pace (due to risk of friendly fire etc).

Iraq are obviously involved in a ground offensive and have signed a pact with Iran to fight ISIS.

Kuwait has officially declared war on ISIS and are involved in intelligence gathering and providing strike targets to the US and France.

Egypt is providing logistical support and air base usage (since the Arab spring they aren't in a position to directly intervene - that's the same for Libya).
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The Sunni states did a handful of meaningless air strikes, not a single thing more. These did not stop or reduce air strikes anywhere near when Russia started it's campaign, they stopped around a year previously.

I think you should take a look what the Saudis are doing to the people of Yemen.

I don't think you grasp how much this is a war of Sunni factions vs Shiits factions.

The only Sunni country seemingly doing anything to counter the Sunni extremists is the Egypt.
 
Rroff said:
Far easier said than done, ISIS are mobile, familiar with the ground they don't "hold" territory so much as exert influence over it usually by fear, to really defeat them you need lots and lots of intel on the ground, surgical operations to remove the people in command and regular infantry to maintain perimeters as you pick them apart.
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Even then you will not defeat them any more than constant bombing defeated the Taliban. You may weaken them but like all these groups they go to ground and regroup when the West's eyes are on something else.
 
chief barker said:
I only suggested it because they hate being called that.

Alternative thread title ; Daesh (bigot) duscussion thread.
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Daesh is just an Arabic acroynym for "Islamic State". ******** like daesh because it doesn't require them to mention Islam, it's their usual politically correct strategy of changing definitions around and playing games to avoid naming the problem.

Islamic State. That's what they want to build, that's the enemy.
 
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