islam and violence...again

El Gringo said:
Shall we keep this to the main thread?
How many people put up the bounties? Three as far as I can read. According to you that constitutes islam in it's entirety.

That's the point. Why or what right any "man or cleric of god" has to pass fatua or put a bounty on someone over the image of someone they only believe he existed thousands of years ago?
 
Sirrel Squirrel said:
I love that bit that says we can put a bounty on Bin Laden so they can put a bounty of the cartoonist, I've got news for them, the cartoonist hasn't blown up thousands of people

You infidel, you cant say that. As a matter of fact just like the Holocaust the 9/11 never happened.!

Im sure iranian president mindset is not too far from that.



Where's the muslim members when you need them
 
Last edited:
Typically, the liberal sympathisers of Muslim “sensitivities” do not seem to notice how childishly selfish the Muslim position is. For centuries and until today, Islam has ordered the destruction of everything that is sacred to other religions, starting with the 360 idols in the Kaaba (including Jesus and Mary) smashed to pieces by Muhammad himself, down to the Bamian Buddhas destroyed by the Taliban in 2001, the weekly vandalising of Hindu temples in Bangladesh, or the destruction of Christian churches in Iraq during the last couple of months. In many cases, moreover, not only the places of worship but the worshippers too have been assaulted. What an arrogance for Muslims, with their heritage of iconoclastic insensitivity, to put up this show of indignation for a handful of harmless cartoons. And now we are being expected to feel pity for those poor touch-me-nots?

In Muslim circles, meanwhile, only a few independent intellectuals have come out unequivocally on the side of freedom of expression, most bravely the Jordanian journalists who confronted their readers with the poser: “Which is worse for Islam, these cartoons or the TV images of Iraqi mujahedin beheading their hostages?” They were arrested. So were several Algerian journalists, for republishing the cartoons, and their paper was banned from publication. Likewise a leftist Syrian journalist was arrested under the law against “insulting religious feelings” for having proposed a dialogue about the cartoon controversy on the plea that violent protests could only hurt the image of Islam. And in Konya, Turkey, a woman journalist was stoned for not wearing a headscarf while reporting on a demonstration held under the motto “loyalty to the Prophet


Soruce http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/825

Any muslim out there, willing to say otherwise? The bit about islam encouraging the destruction of other religion sacred stuff is true, i should know i was once a muslim.
 
The Quran contains dozens of verses that preach hostility to Pagans (polytheists, Zoroastrian ‘fire-worshippers’ and atheists), Jews and Christians. It denounces their teachings as false and evil and a sure passport to hell. By modern Western standards the author of the Quran is entitled to his freedom of opinion on religions. But by KifKif standards, these insulting comments on other people’s religions are not so innocent and ought to be curtailed, especially in a multicultural society. (And indeed, the orthodox sources agree that it was Muhammad’s lifetime achievement to have transformed Arabia’s multicultural society into a monolithic Islamic one.)

The Quran also expressly forbids conversion from Islam to other religions, while allowing and encouraging the reverse. This becomes problematic in the light of the KifKif authors’ plea for equality and reciprocity. It is also in contravention of the ECHR’s article 9, to which they purportedly adhere, for this article defines “freedom of religion” as including “the right to change one’s religion.”


Muslim brothers and sisters please tell me this is so not correct! :rolleyes:


it gets even better
There is even grimmer reading, however, in dozens of Quran verses that go further than mere doctrinal disputation and actually enjoin the Muslims to go out and fight the ‘infidels.’ The core text of Islam is not merely disrespectful towards other religions, it extols killing and glorifies dying in the war against the non-Muslims. If the text of the Quran should not be clear enough, one must bear in mind that it is a companion volume to Muhammad’s life story as a religious leader and military conqueror. Consequently, if one should have doubts about the meaning of jihad, literally ‘effort’ but in practice ‘war against the infidels,’ one need merely put the verses in their real-life context. Muhammad understood and used the term unambiguously in the sense of ‘war,’ not some ethereal or metaphorical ‘struggle against the evil in ourselves’ but an actual war involving horses, weapons, stratagems and blood. The Quran explicitly teaches hatred, hostility and the use of force against other religions and their adherents. By KifKif’s own standards, it clearly exceeds the “limits of freedom of expression.”
 
Last edited:
cleanbluesky said:
ElRaz - please dont continue baiting Muslim members here, we have been over things like this before and it doesn't get far... try looking at the ummah forums if you need a fix of Muslim opinion, it will either make you twice as wary or make you laugh until you collapse...

The idea of banning the Koran is terrible, there is no way on earth that the book shouldn't be allowed. Sends completely the wrong message.

TBH, this news shows how their members are lacking faith if they have to tempt them to do their supposed "Islamic duty" with money...


Yeah for real, im not set on baiting but all i want is a discussion on a neutral ground.

Im not saying quran should be banned, and the article has a question mark after the sentence. Having said that i also believe it made some valid point which i have quoted ( i did this because i was a muslim before and it is so true) and wonder what the muslims opinion will be as to whether it is all lies or just hear their view on it......
 
^^ you miss the bigger picture here. I agree with you but the fact no big cleric, mullah, ayatollah or alfa has come out to say "stop it" but more like we get things like "go on it is right and you will go to heaven"
 
asim said:
Yea well a person has got to think for themselves. What does the Quran say about murder. Well if you murder someone you go to hell. Now if some religious authority says. Murder that man and you'll go to heaven cause your doing it in the name of Islam. Are you going to blindly follow orders and murder someone?

Those who are TRULY muslim know the answer.


Please. Read all the quotes i made previously. I was once a muslim and it DOES ENCOURAGE the killing of non-muslim. So if these individual go on an animalistic and barbarian instict im sorry they are only following what the quran says.

Quran is staight from God in form of Revelation to Prophet Muhammed (S.A.W) in the cave over a period of time. No deletions and additions can be made and it is to be followed the way it is written. Now tell me TRUE or FALSE.
 
Man is given the freedom of choice no matter what religion he chooses to follow. This was text written years and years ago.

Yes but man have been shown to be mislead by a few. The fact it was written years ago can be viewed as sacred and "untochable" as the demostration all over the world have shown.

Lets put it this way. There are far more muslims in the world NOT killing people. I cannot make false claims about the Quran without reading through the entire english translation. But partial quotations taken out a large book are not going to convince me that Islam is about killing non muslims.

I dont necessarily agrre with you there, im from Nigeria and i have withnessed these things first hand. There's no need to make false claims, if i dont know what anything i will rather keep my mouth shut. Those quotations are what the explanations of the teachings of Prophet Muhammed (s.a.w) represents. His teachings are of war and when i say war i am not talking the "good vs evil war" rather war against non-believer.
Prophet Muhammed (s.aw) unlike Jesus Christ never preached in parables i.e "when slapped on your right cheek turn the left one" he's (s.a.w) more like word for word. Bow arrows, sword (his favourite) and Horse to spread the word of God.

If infact it says of killing non muslims then I'd assume its to do with being in a war where you are forced to fight against one another. I dont think your told to go out and butcher everyone in the streets...

I think i have answered this above, i will suggest you get an english copy of quran and come back. Dont bring a Knife to a Gun fight.
 
asim said:
In my eyes Islam represents peace, .

Dont say that again ...please
.Typically, the liberal sympathisers of Muslim “sensitivities” do not seem to notice how childishly selfish the Muslim position is. For centuries and until today, Islam has ordered the destruction of everything that is sacred to other religions, starting with the 360 idols in the Kaaba (including Jesus and Mary) smashed to pieces by Muhammad himself, down to the Bamian Buddhas destroyed by the Taliban in 2001, the weekly vandalising of Hindu temples in Bangladesh, or the destruction of Christian churches in Iraq during the last couple of months. In many cases, moreover, not only the places of worship but the worshippers too have been assaulted. What an arrogance for Muslims, with their heritage of iconoclastic insensitivity, to put up this show of indignation for a handful of harmless cartoons. And now we are being expected to feel pity for those poor touch-me-nots?

Yeah, this is VERY peaceful indeed.
.The Quran contains dozens of verses that preach hostility to Pagans (polytheists, Zoroastrian ‘fire-worshippers’ and atheists), Jews and Christians. It denounces their teachings as false and evil and a sure passport to hell. By modern Western standards the author of the Quran is entitled to his freedom of opinion on religions. But by KifKif standards, these insulting comments on other people’s religions are not so innocent and ought to be curtailed, especially in a multicultural society. (And indeed, the orthodox sources agree that it was Muhammad’s lifetime achievement to have transformed Arabia’s multicultural society into a monolithic Islamic one.)

The Quran also expressly forbids conversion from Islam to other religions, while allowing and encouraging the reverse. This becomes problematic in the light of the KifKif authors’ plea for equality and reciprocity. It is also in contravention of the ECHR’s article 9, to which they purportedly adhere, for this article defines “freedom of religion” as including “the right to change one’s religion.”

And you never answered my question as to whether it was TRUE or FALSE.
 
Asim

For the record, i dont believe in God. Yes I saw many things, so bad i cant mention some in here. Can i also mentioned i was once a muslim.

Now to some extent i agree, not every muslim brew trouble but a bigger % amongst the One Billion worldwide are in the other extreme end (sorry, it is a fact)

I dont see colour either, as a matter of fact i dont discriminate whether you are brown Black or colour of the rainbow i will still roll with you ...(especially if you are a cute female)

I dont have problem with your religion but i have a problem with the way those who practise it are failing to see their consequences. I NEVER stated for Quran to be banned, the article if you read it never stated for it to be banned either. The tille was merely asking a question. (but i guess you aint even allowed to say things like that right)

Like i said before, not every muslim is a bad but im sorry majority of those who practise it are so intolerant and blind to the facts period. Take it or leave it.

In a debate i like to state facts and ask questions but if im not getting any response as per the question i am asking i can only suggest you go back and come back strong.
 
asim said:
Your choice to believe or not.

Asim, you can keep responding to people's quesion by 1, Ignoring them and 2, Saying things like your choice or stuff like that. It makes you look weak and as a matter of fact from my previous experience i wont even consider you a true muslim Because you appear not to know the simple basics of you Religion teachings.
 
asim said:
He said he doesnt believe in Jesus. I said its his choice. Can I prove religion isnt made up? Well no I cant because I'm not willing to go to the extent of proving whether it is or not. I dont feel that strongly about changing his opinion.

I know the BASICS of my religion. Which is exactly what I follow. Obviously you've seen something different which you account as the basics and thats why you dont believe in Islam. I came into this thread to voice my opinion not to change your mind or throw facts at you. I dont have the time and I dont actually feel like putting effort into that. If I appear weak. So be it.

Your opinion of me does not change my opinion of me or my religion. Its General Discussion forum. I voice my opinion and leave it there. Want to debate facts take it to the speakers corner. I'm no religious fanatic and never claimed to be. I just dont like to see the religion bad mouthed because of the actions of a few.

You are right, let's leave it there. Since we aint getting no where. Can i wrap this up by quoting Bob Marley - "You can fool some people some time but you cant fool All the people all the time" - there Saalam Um alle kum. Peace asim.
 
Sleepy said:
Based on the hadith, in fact reported by enough companions to qualify as a mutawatir hadith, the caliph or representative may execute the apostate. the quran merely speaks of punishment by allah in this life and an even greater punishment in the next. Does that answer your question?

I see your point but not in that context. It was directed at asim but he aint saying nothing. I know the answer, and it was supposed to be a punchline to my point...anyway it is gone now.
 
asim said:
lol

Yea lets leave it at that. Now if we were in the same area i'd say lets go to the pub :p

You infidel, that's Haram. You cant go to the pub, you are supposed to be physically, morally and spiritually clean.....Oh hold on one sec, ....the talk is over...sorry :o
 
Back
Top Bottom