It looks like the 'real' /affordable RDNA3 + next gen NV desktop launch won't launch until September. Thoughts?

[g67575]

I think the thing people should be angry about is the cost of Nvidia cards released >2 years ago, like the RTX 3080:

https://store.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/store/gpu/?page=1&limit=9&locale=en-gb&category=GPU&gpu=RTX%203080%20Ti,RTX%203080

There's been no price drop since the launch of the RTX 4070 TI, in RTX 3000 series GPUs.

The new card is simply faster, and only costs a bit more (not that £800 is affordable either).

RTX 3070 TIs are going for £600-£700. Huge rip off compared to the MSRP price.

£700-£1400 for a 'new' RTX 3080 10GB

£800+ for a used RTX 3080 TI.

The prices of Ampere cards have stayed high, and are going to push up next gen prices too (both AMD and NVIDIA).

They could probably quickly sell off any remaining cards at a fixed MSRP price, but NVIDIA would rather drag it out, and keep selling customers old technology.

 

[g67575]

Nvidia can set prices from the previous generation (Ampere) at whatever they like (as long as it's profitable). They haven't tried to enforce the MSRP prices of these cards, instead they've given up, and shifted focus onto the RTX 4000 series.

 

[g67575]

All I can say, is that modern graphics cards clearly weren't meant for us Brits. The situation is better in the US, because there is more competition between mega retailers /E-tailors, more discounts, tax rebates, and in some cases, no sales tax at all.

And so, AMDNVIDIA pricing policy is set for the US market, it's not for the likes of you

They probably only produce enough to sell to the US anyway.

Is it for the likes of EU though?

 

[g67575]

Not pretty pricing trend graphs for the RX 6800, 6800 XT and RTX 3080.

You'll have to google for 'pc part picker price trend graphics cards' cause I can't link them here:

The worst has been the average RX 6800 XT prices, which have increased since the card launched.

Prices of the RTX 3070 TI seem pretty poor also, especially relative to RTX 3080 prices. Can't see anyone buying this card new.

I think it's fair to say that AMD hasn't really brought the pain to Nvidia.

The only card that's really competed on price is the 6700 XT.

The only other one that might still be relevant is the RX 6800, but that remains to be seen.

 

[g67575]

Latest rumours are suggesting the 7800xt whilst only have 60 CUs will be clocked quite a bit higher than the 7900 cards and actually come in pretty close performance wise. Time will tell I guess.

I'm not going to hold my breath, as they've said nothing about these cards.

EDIT - but yes, in theory I think the numbers look quite good. I think it will have a better memory bus than is predicted by Techpowerup. I think probably fairly high clocked GDDR6 as well.

 

[g67575]

I tend to like higher clocked cards, in the past at least, mid tier cards with higher clocks tended to represent better value. There are so many different (but similar) models and variants now though, that I don't think it matters much.

 

[g67575]

6800xt and 6900xt only had something like 10% difference in most scenarios which made the 6900xt a silly decision considering its cost. Imagine if it is a similar situation with the 7800xt and 7900xt, would make sense for AMD to release the higher tier cards first this time round.

I doubt this will be the case but we can hope right...?

The difference this time, is that the RX 7900 XT and 'RX 7800 XT' are based on different GPU dies, Navi31 and Navi32 respectively.

We also know that the 7900 XT has 24 more Compute units than the top Navi32 GPU.

But a high clock rate for the 7800 XT wouldn't surprise me at all.

I also think that these chips should be easier to mass produce than Navi31. The GCD on Nav32 is ~200 mm², vs a GCD of 300 mm² on Nav31.

I think a RX 7900 (non XT) seems quite likely later this year also, perhaps with 8 less compute units than the RX 7800 XT.

 

[g67575]

I don't think prices will come down for higher tier GPUs (Navi21 and GA102) until most of the low-mid tier current generation GPUs have been sold, so could be a several months away.

 

[g67575]

It does seem like AMD wants to focus on beefed up versions of Navi31 ('Navi31 XT+' and 'Navi31 XTX+') for this die, unfortunately:

AMD Navi 31 GPU Specs

6144 Cores, 384 TMUs, 192 ROPs

www.techpowerup.com

Some pretty mega performance numbers, that could end up with the RTX 4090 being overtaken (but ofc Nvidia will have an RTX 4090 TI planned).

But that would depend on very high clock rates that might not be achievable.

So, no sign of a trimmed down Navi31 GPU for now.

 

[g67575]

I found some interesting slides from AMD from when RDNA3 was launched:

A large increase (nearly double) the bandwidth of RDNA2, which itself had increased max bandwidth a lot with the 1st generation of infinity cache. This is really good, because even though they're lowered the amount of infinity cache for the Navi32 die GPUs (like the RX 7800 XT) to 64MB, the performance should still be the same, in comparison to models like the RX 6800 XT.

Also, Navi31 GPUs should all have higher peak memory bandwidth, compared to RDNA2 GPUs.

50% improvement in RT performance per Compute Unit. This is pretty good, but I remember predicting (and hoping for) a 100% improvement for RDNA3.

It just means you'd have to buy a GPU with a lot of compute units, to make up for only a modest improvement in RT vs RDNA2. The only problem with this, is that AMD has apparently already maxed out the Compute Unit count on Navi31, with the 7900 XTX (96 CUs).

Lets hope their implementation of frame generation allows some really high framerates on RT games...

 

[g67575]

Low self-esteem.

Aren't there enough threads for you to whine and project negativity in?

 

[g67575]

I'm looking at a website that lists their stock of all graphics cards.

An RTX 4080 (24GB) is priced over £1,200 and they have >300 in stock.

A similar factory overclocked card priced over £1300 has >200 in stock.

An RX 7900 XT is priced >£800 and has >90 in stock.

There doesn't seem to be a shortage of the latest top tier cards, at least with prices at this level.

Probably a good sign for upcoming mid tier cards.

 

[g67575]

It's pretty much what you'd expect for the RTX 4080 in terms of sales, although they have more in stock than I expected.

No sign of the RTX 4090 though, maybe they thought no one would buy one (or, the amount they produce is quite low).

No stock for the RTX 3080/3090.

Still some for the RTX 3060, 3070 and TI variants.

No stock for the RX 6600, 6700, 6800, 6900 or XT variants.

 

[g67575]

RTX 4080 FEs just sitting there at £1,199 today.

Nvidia is probably thinking, guess we should release an RTX 4080 TI soon?

crank out some 10% better AD103 dies and crank up that MSRP

 

[g67575]

It really depends on what most customers have already.

Lots of people play at 1440p resolution. The majority of cards are still aimed at this resolution (even if sometimes marketed at 4K with upscaling techniques enabled)

A RX 6800 or RTX 3080 will handle virtually every game at this resolution.

4K cards are still very expensive, it's a huge leap up from 1440p.

An RTX 4090 can just about handle Warhammer III at 4K resolution, without framerate dips.

According to techpowerup, the RTX 4090 has around 2x the performance (209%) of a RX 6800 at 4K. It takes a lot.

Looking at the theoretical performance of the RTX 4090, on paper it's a very high performance GPU.

It's just that few can afford to buy one.

 

[g67575]

think we need for the full ranges from both companies to be released

Yes, definitely.

But I think we are at least a generation away from affordable 4K resolution performance in demanding titles.

 

[g67575]

If the RX 6800 XT price fell from ~£600 to £500, would any of you buy one at that price?

Personally, I think I could be tempted.

 

[g67575]

Angstronomics says that Navi32 uses a 256 bit memory bus. Infinity cache performance should be very similar to the RX 6800 XT.

They've also significantly increased the compute power (FP32 /float), per Compute Unit.

AMD is reusing the same MCDs (from Navi31) for Navi32. I'd guess this means they will wait until the production of Navi31 dies is healthy, before releasing Navi32. But, on the plus side, it should be some fairly high clocked GDDR6 memory.

 

[g67575]

The 'RX 7800 XT' looks to in theory, be similar in performance to an RTX 4070 TI:

AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2430 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2438 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Specs

NVIDIA AD104, 2610 MHz, 7680 Cores, 240 TMUs, 80 ROPs, 12288 MB GDDR6X, 1313 MHz, 192 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Similar Texture and floating point processing ability. Likely similar bandwidth too, especially if Navi32 has a 256bit memory bus. The pixel rate is reportedly higher on the navi chip.

How similar, depends on the clock rate of the navi chip.

If it is similar in performance, I think AMD would price it high (e.g £700).

 

[g67575]

I wonder if Nvidia's decision to use lots of L2 cache in Ampere 'Next' might end up giving them a small performance advantage over RDNA3 (at the mid/high end), which has lots of L3 /infinity cache instead?

In theory, the L2 cache would have a lower latency than L3 (or is it L4?).

L2 is generally more expensive though...