italian match fixing scandal!

BoomAM · 26 Jul 2006 at 09:38

Gilly said:
ARGH!!! Are you being stupid on purpose to wind me up? You've taken umbrage at one comment that was made that is FACT. It cannot be argued, no matter how you wish it could be.

Where have i argued against the fact that they were punished?
If they have done wrong, then yes, they should be punished, but as M1ke has highlighted, the punishment, even reduced, is far more punishment than what we deserved for someone who did something on his own accord, without the clubs backing.

I don't care whether AC are good enough for Europe. I don't care that they've talked their way back into the CL. I don't even care whether they were guilty or not!

Your missing my point here, and its not just you missing it, a few others are as well.
Im not arguing that we should get into Europe because we're good in Europe, im arguing that we were good enough to get into Europe without all of the cheating that Juve did. This is proved by how we do in the CL. If we were bad but looked good because of the cheating, then we wouldnt be doing well in europe would we?

Whether they're good enough and were guilty or not is something I'm not willing to talk about. I'm not bothering with it because I've had enough problems with you already over the years and I simply don't care. Thats inconsequential to the point though.

So why are you discussing this then if you dont care!?
Maybe its because its because early in the day that this is getting heated already, but either way, it shouldnt matter.
Your past arguments with me are of no consequence either, so, as you've said, why bring it up?
I dont see why your still harboring some hard feelings over our past arguments either. Its not like we've been at each others throats like we used to in absolutely ages. Tbh, regardless of whats been said in the past, ive put it behind me, and although i dont agree with you that often, i still have respect that you can put your opinion accross so well. Yet, as aparent from the comment just made, you still hold a grudge. Why?
Or should i put it down to a short fuse for today?

Gilly · 26 Jul 2006 at 09:49

BoomAM said:
Where have i argued against the fact that they were punished?
If they have done wrong, then yes, they should be punished, but as M1ke has highlighted, the punishment, even reduced, is far more punishment than what we deserved for someone who did something on his own accord, without the clubs backing.

Not that they were punished, but what they were punished for.

BoomAM said:
Your missing my point here, and its not just you missing it, a few others are as well.
Im not arguing that we should get into Europe because we're good in Europe, im arguing that we were good enough to get into Europe without all of the cheating that Juve did. This is proved by how we do in the CL. If we were bad but looked good because of the cheating, then we wouldnt be doing well in europe would we?

How long did Arsenal look good in the Prem without carrying that to Europe? How long have Liverpool been successful in Europe without carrying that into the Prem? Millwall did well in the best and most respected domestic cup in the world without even being in the top division.

I can't see how doing well in a cup automatically equates to doing will in the league. Doesn't compute for me.

BoomAM · 26 Jul 2006 at 09:54

Gilly said:
I can't see how doing well in a cup automatically equates to doing will in the league. Doesn't compute for me.

Maybe its best we leave it then? Before it escalates any further.

Dtab · 26 Jul 2006 at 10:05

BoomAM said:
Again.
Ignorence of the public over here as to what happened.
If they match fixed, why would they match fix a game in which they drew? in a game that didnt matter? Not exactely going to help our league position is it?

No, i know whats been made public,which is all any of of know.
And whilst Milans punishment seems harsh for the crime,they have been found guilty non-the-less.
Would you argue that a player caught taking performance enhancers should not be punished if their performance hasn't improved? to me ,that sounds a bit like the argument your making in Milans defence.

It seems FIFA or Uefa (not sure which tbh,only heard it on the radio) aren't too pleased that the Prem/FA select match officials either,according to their rules it should be an independant body. Maybe we'll be getting our very own ref fixing scandal soon

I remember a few years ago Fergie blew his top with a ref and said he didn't want him as an official again - and he didn't ,should be investigated asap

BoomAM · 26 Jul 2006 at 10:12

Dtab said:
Would you argue that a player caught taking performance enhancers should not be punished if their performance hasn't improved? to me ,that sounds a bit like the argument your making in Milans defence.

No, im not saying that at all. If they were guilty, then punish them to the full extent of the law. BUT, they were punished for fixing a draw.
Again, if we were completely guilty and used direct match fixing actions, punish us. But, we were punish on evidence, that imo, wasnt really that concrete.
But this is going round in circles now. So im gonna leave it how it is.

It seems FIFA or Uefa (not sure which tbh,only heard it on the radio) aren't too pleased that the Prem/FA select match officials either,according to their rules it should be an independant body. Maybe we'll be getting our very own ref fixing scandal soon

I remember a few years ago Fergie blew his top with a ref and said he didn't want him as an official again - and he didn't ,should be investigated asap

Chelsea would love that. lol. All the claims of being singled out by Jose is unreal. lol.
I dont think, and i hope, that its not as bad as whats happened in Italy.
Because as much as there are suspicions over here, i dont think theres any match fixing going on.
I think its probably just a case of the fixture issues that Jose has pointed out.
And i wouldnt be suprised if Mr Dean was involved somewhere...

Spud21 · 26 Jul 2006 at 10:47

Hardly surprising to be honest, i wonder how much the clubs paid in backhanders for this decision ? but in a country that is as corrupt as Italy is from top to bottom it's hardly surprising that those with financial clout get what they want. If the decision hasn't been overturned ( which mabye it should be as the evidence against AC is rather tenious) then i can't see how their punishment can be reduced, as it stands they have been found guilty of match fixing (about the worst thing you can do in football) but are being barely punished, if the evidence is weak then you either overturn the decision completely or let the punishment stand as it was. Reducing it vastly in the favour of AC while allowing the conviction to stand just says that old silvio has paid someone a lot of money for this to happen.

HangTime · 27 Jul 2006 at 19:11

BoomAM said:
I think its probably just a case of the fixture issues that Jose has pointed out.
And i wouldnt be suprised if Mr Dean was involved somewhere...

That thing was a massive joke, because he was only looking at it from one angle. As I pointed out at the time, there was a case last year for saying that the fixtures were biased in FAVOUR of Chelsea, in terms of them getting more rest after european games. He was talking about having to play away from home after european matches iirc, but Chelsea were getting the benefit in terms of having more rest between matches. FIX :mad:

Greenlizard0 · 27 Jul 2006 at 19:37

BoomAM said:
Thats the thing though, they really *should*.
You can sorta see why Juve are good in the league but bad in Europe.
But Milan are awesome in Europe. As proven by our record in the competition over the years.
And admit it or not: We are one of the best sides in Europe, on merit.

That's not the point at all. Your team cheated in its domestic league. The domestic league is how you qualify for the champions league. The champions league is where the top teams want to play and the financial rewards are immense. Therefore it seems fitting that exclusion from the champions league is a fair punishment.

Juve are not going to be there next season - they've won more Italian League's then you therefore have played more times in the European cup. Should we bring them back also?

One of the best records is totally irrelevant. If they do play us or Liverpool next season and them beating us prevents us from progressing then i'd be mightly annoyed. Your team got a slap on its arse nothing more, it's pathetic.

What about players? Rio Ferdinand, ok to be pedantic didn't fail a drugs test - he didn't turn up for it. He's one of the best defenders in England - on that not - he should have kept playing and not be banned!

Mr Nice · 27 Jul 2006 at 19:45

Too lenient.

An Italian football commentator said that if all 4 clubs were punished how they should have, Fiorentian, Lazio and AC would all be in Serie B and Juve should be playing park football (I don't know what the the Italian equivalent for Hackney Marshes is)

BoomAM · 27 Jul 2006 at 23:44

HangTime said:
...snip...

Just speculation on my part that. Dont take it personally, it was the only reason i could think of for an investigation into the FA.

BaZ87 · 2 Aug 2006 at 13:55

Uefa have announced that Milan will be allowed to play in the CL this year.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/5233430.stm

Greenlizard0 · 2 Aug 2006 at 15:26

BaZ87 said:
Uefa have announced that Milan will be allowed to play in the CL this year.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/5233430.stm

What a joke? Hope Arsenal cheat next season, it seems you don't really get punished for it.. :rolleyes:

BoomAM · 2 Aug 2006 at 16:25

Im suprised only the one of you is whining. I was expecting half the forum to throw their dummys out.

5ingh · 8 Aug 2006 at 11:25

Surprised this news went ignored. Guess everyone has got used to it

Italian club Reggina have become the fifth club ordered to stand trial over allegations of match-fixing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/5254698.stm

Reggina must appear before a sports tribunal after being charged amidst allegations of match-fixing.

Following on from the recent scandal which has rocked Italian football, Reggina have been ordered to answer charges of sporting fraud.

The charge relates to six games the Serie A side were involved in over the past two seasons, with Reggina's president Lillo Foti (pictured) having had his telephone tapped.

Foti, along with three referees, two assistant referees and another official, has been charged by the Italian Football Federation's (FIGC) prosecutor Stefano Palazzi.

The matches in question are home fixtures against Brescia, Cagliari and Palermo, and away games versus Udinese, Sampdoria and Palermo.

Only last month, Foti was questioned in connection with the allegations and protested his innocence, having been accused of trying to rig the outcome of those six games.

Reggina must now wait to learn if they will be on the end of the same guilty verdicts which were recorded against Juventus, Milan, Fiorentina and Lazio.

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?...34&lid=8&title=Reggina+charged+in+new+scandal

BoomAM · 8 Aug 2006 at 16:42

Cant see much happening to Reggina tbh.

Manlove is my forte · 8 Aug 2006 at 17:37

BoomAM.

It does not matter how the match played out, or if a bribe was successful. Any team found guilty of attmepting to fix a match for any reason should be punished.

Personally I think they have all gotten off lightly.

BoomAM · 8 Aug 2006 at 17:50

Kronologic said:
BoomAM.

It does not matter how the match played out, or if a bribe was successful. Any team found guilty of attmepting to fix a match for any reason should be punished.

Personally I think they have all gotten off lightly.

Where did that come from? That topic of discussion is dead.
Your just repeating whats already been discussed.