It’s going to get much worse. Brace for it...

McPhee · 19 Feb 2021 at 09:46

Bouton Aide said:
Yes but where is the money come from, how is it been turned to real 'money' in the first place from nothing.

People buy it with fiat money. Or exchange goods for crypto coins instead of fiat ones.

As it stands today, people buy crypto for three main reasons; speculation, drugs and tax evasion, and as an alternative store of value outside the traditional banking system.

The recent boom took off for two main reasons. Firstly, the US government started handing out cash to citizens. Crypto offers the prospect (albeit a slim one) of turning that cash in to a life-changing amount of money. So rather than use that money for its intended purpose, many people chose to blow it on speculative investing (see the Gamestop incident for another example of this).

And secondly, central banks across the world are currently printing money at an incredible rate in an attempt to combat the economic fall out of the covid crisis. The value of fiat currency is falling. And with that, people who hold large amounts of cash have been looking for better ways to store that value. Cryptocurrency is one option. It can be spent like cash, or quickly converted to any other currency. But it's immune to the effects of QE.

Lycoris · 19 Feb 2021 at 09:51

Bouton Aide said:
Yes but where is the money come from, how is it been turned to real 'money' in the first place from nothing.

What is "real" money anyway apart from pieces of metal and paper that we as a society have decided has an intrinsic value? If enough members of a community recognise that a certain item has value, that item can be used to trade for and barter for goods, essentially becoming a currency. The fact that it's virtual doesn't really come into play. In ancient times, before currency was a thing people would assign values to commodities such as fish and livestock and barter with those directly.

Brazo · 19 Feb 2021 at 10:03

Bouton Aide said:
Yes but where is the money come from, how is it been turned to real 'money' in the first place from nothing.

It’s a currency that people have to trust in. Look at the uk pound. It doesn’t physically exist. It’s no longer backed up by gold reserves it lives purely on market confidence and the confidence of users.

Look at Bitcoin, Elon Musk has confidence in that currency, $1.5billion worth of confidence! So it exists as a currency that people have trust in. You send me your laptop and I pay you in Bitcoin and then you can spend that Bitcoin the same as a pound coin.

Now onto the mining side, yes it’s true that some computational power is required to validate transactions but that will only equate to a tiny % of mining power expended. Mining diffIculty is artificially increased when more people are mining Bitcoin, after all it’s not like Hsbc needs the electrical output of a country the size of Argentina to verify its transactions! Mining is simply a way to ‘earn’ this fictional currency.

Johnny Silverhand · 19 Feb 2021 at 10:04

Laughing at those still holding out for an Nvidibot card while I'm here enjoying my 6800XT.

willhub · 19 Feb 2021 at 10:30

Johnny Silverhand said:
Laughing at those still holding out for an Nvidibot card while I'm here enjoying my 6800XT.

And I'm enjoying my 3080, its superior performance and superior hash rate

andybird123 · 19 Feb 2021 at 10:37

Johnny Silverhand said:
Laughing at those still holding out for an Nvidibot card while I'm here enjoying my 6800XT.

Yeah great, where can I get one, oh yeah they're not in stock anywhere either, how do I get one? Use a stock bot. /doh

LtMatt · 19 Feb 2021 at 10:40

Johnny Silverhand said:
Laughing at those still holding out for an Nvidibot card while I'm here enjoying my 6800XT.

Johnny, you need to work on your public relations.

Johnny Silverhand · 19 Feb 2021 at 10:44

willhub said:
And I'm enjoying my 3080, its superior performance and superior hash rate

"superior performance" - my backside.

And why bother mining when you can just buy bitcoin?

andybird123 said:
Yeah great, where can I get one, oh yeah they're not in stock anywhere either, how do I get one? Use a stock bot. /doh

OCUK had them on and off for a few weeks. I guess you was late to the party? Just returned one of the two I bought so maybe you'll get lucky...

LtMatt said:
Johnny, you need to work on your public relations.

This made me spit out my coffee thanks LOL

Odirse · 19 Feb 2021 at 11:10

Haven't been able to buy a GPU since early december. Can't buy a GPU now.

How is it gonna get worse? It might get worse for people who are buying many using bots etc, or buying them directly, but I don't see how it is gonna get worse for me or anyone looking to buy a single GPU really...

Doobedoo · 19 Feb 2021 at 11:13

Johnny Silverhand said:
"superior performance" - my backside. And why bother mining when you can just buy bitcoin?

OCUK had them on and off for a few weeks. I guess you was late to the party? Just returned one of the two I bought so maybe you'll get lucky...

This made me spit out my coffee thanks LOL

So I was right you are trolling :rolleyes:

McPhee · 19 Feb 2021 at 11:19

Odirse said:
Haven't been able to buy a GPU since early december. Can't buy a GPU now.

How is it gonna get worse? It might get worse for people who are buying many using bots etc, or buying them directly, but I don't see how it is gonna get worse for me or anyone looking to buy a single GPU really...

You know people have managed to buy single cards, right? There isn't much stock, but there is some stock. Things are "getting worse" because the price of that stock keeps rising. If you can find a card, it's likely 25%+ more expensive than it was three months ago (and that was already over RRP).

Deleted member 77746 · 19 Feb 2021 at 11:23

McPhee said:
You know people have managed to buy single cards, right? There isn't much stock, but there is some stock. Things are "getting worse" because the price of that stock keeps rising. If you can find a card, it's likely 25%+ more expensive than it was three months ago (and that was already over RRP).

Prices rise people are still buying them. This is a problem on it's own.

Odirse · 19 Feb 2021 at 11:38

McPhee said:
You know people have managed to buy single cards, right? There isn't much stock, but there is some stock. Things are "getting worse" because the price of that stock keeps rising. If you can find a card, it's likely 25%+ more expensive than it was three months ago (and that was already over RRP).

Well, unfortunately not everyone can afford to look for hours, or even have the chance of connecting to the internet wherever they please or when the phone tells you to do so. There is people out there, that have to work for living, you know.

Can't see how it can we worse for them.

Or maybe not everyone can afford, or simply want to buy at +40-100% MSRP... what does it matter if the price rises another 20% if you are not willing to pay the current prices already? And please, do not tell me that there is people buying single cards at MSRP, just by checking frecuently, because I just don't believe it, at least it hasn't been my case, and I am lucky enough to be able to check quite frecuently.

Zeeflyboy · 19 Feb 2021 at 12:00

Odirse said:
And please, do not tell me that there is people buying single cards at MSRP, just by checking frecuently, because I just don't believe it, at least it hasn't been my case, and I am lucky enough to be able to check quite frecuently.

I’m not going to pretend the market is healthy at the moment but refusing to be told something that is evidently true is a bit odd. Just browse the FE thread here and you’ll see a many examples of people that have got a GPU at msrp. Even quite a few lucky sods with the 3080FE. So whether you want to be told it or not, normal humans are indeed managing to get single cards at msrp.

I myself got a 3070FE at msrp, decided it wasn’t fast enough so sold at cost and then after giving up on a 3080 bought a 3090FE at msrp (albeit granted that msrp is ridiculous even without inflating it).

FoxEye · 19 Feb 2021 at 12:04

McPhee said:
You know people have managed to buy single cards, right? There isn't much stock, but there is some stock. Things are "getting worse" because the price of that stock keeps rising. If you can find a card, it's likely 25%+ more expensive than it was three months ago (and that was already over RRP).

Also AMD no longer ship to the UK (since Brexit) so you can't get a 6800 or 6800XT at RRP in this country. Just not possible, sadly.

Meanwhile, these cards are actually selling for over £1000 (RRP <£600, remember!).

McPhee · 19 Feb 2021 at 12:13

Odirse said:
Well, unfortunately not everyone can afford to look for hours, or even have the chance of connecting to the internet wherever they please or when the phone tells you to do so. There is people out there, that have to work for living, you know.

Can't see how it can we worse for them.

Or maybe not everyone can afford, or simply want to buy at +40-100% MSRP... what does it matter if the price rises another 20% if you are not willing to pay the current prices already? And please, do not tell me that there is people buying single cards at MSRP, just by checking frecuently, because I just don't believe it, at least it hasn't been my case, and I am lucky enough to be able to check quite frecuently.

So people can buy single cards then? It's just not easy enough, convenient enough, or affordable enough for everyone? That's a materially different argument from the one in your previous post.

As for the MSRP bit, that's demonstrably untrue. Only have to look back to two weeks ago in the FE thread to see that people are getting cards at MSRP (myself included). Just need to sign up to a stock alert. After that, it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Not everyone can get a card this way. But some can (which again disproves this idea that all stock is being bought by bots and miners).

FoxEye · 19 Feb 2021 at 12:27

McPhee said:
So people can buy single cards then? It's just not easy enough, convenient enough, or affordable enough for everyone? That's a materially different argument from the one in your previous post.

As for the MSRP bit, that's demonstrably untrue. Only have to look back to two weeks ago in the FE thread to see that people are getting cards at MSRP (myself included). Just need to sign up to a stock alert. After that, it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Not everyone can get a card this way. But some can (which again disproves this idea that all stock is being bought by bots and miners).

It doesn't. The big miners aren't fighting for cards at retail, that much is clear.

The people who are fighting for cards at retail - including people here who got an FE - might be buying them for mining. Quite likely in fact.

If you check the threads here at this point in time, about 50% of people here (at least) are currently using their GPUs for mining.

A lot might not have upgraded at all except for the promise of free money.

willhub · 19 Feb 2021 at 12:36

Johnny Silverhand said:
"superior performance" - my backside. And why bother mining when you can just buy bitcoin?

OCUK had them on and off for a few weeks. I guess you was late to the party? Just returned one of the two I bought so maybe you'll get lucky...

This made me spit out my coffee thanks LOL

It is superior performance, you're just well jel you had to search for an equally hard to get 6800XT. Not to mention the extra features the 3080 has, hardware for better upscaling to further improve the already superior 4k performance, and also better ray tracing hardware.

And are yu having a laugh? "Why mine when you can buy bitcoin" - If I spend 10 quid on bitcoin, it's worth 10 quid, if I spend £1.10 of electric, it's worth 8 quid of bitcoin.

Zeeflyboy · 19 Feb 2021 at 12:39

FoxEye said:
The people who are fighting for cards at retail - including people here who got an FE - might be buying them for mining. Quite likely in fact.

If you check the threads here at this point in time, about 50% of people here (at least) are currently using their GPUs for mining.

A lot might not have upgraded at all except for the promise of free money.

That’s a big leap of logic, using your GPU for mining is not the same as buying it for mining... you’d also need to quantify “a lot” as I personally doubt many here based their upgrade choice around mining. I’d wager the majority in fact bought their FE cards as gaming cards first and foremost and if they mine they do so as a happy side benefit.

To make anything more than frankly chump change you need to have multiple GPUs and that isn’t happening with FEs at retail due to the purchase policy.

Doobedoo · 19 Feb 2021 at 12:40

FoxEye said:
It doesn't. The big miners aren't fighting for cards at retail, that much is clear.

The people who are fighting for cards at retail - including people here who got an FE - might be buying them for mining. Quite likely in fact.

If you check the threads here at this point in time, about 50% of people here (at least) are currently using their GPUs for mining.

A lot might not have upgraded at all except for the promise of free money.

You might find that people have taken to mining very recently not as a means of getting rich but purely to offset the inflated prices they have had to pay.